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Year 11 Day 102 16:13
Maybe it's just me, but I remember Luke saying at some point during the bar scene...

"10,000 credits?! I could buy a ship with that!"
-Luke Skywalker, Episode IV: A New Hope

THEN I look at how much just the materials cost for making the ship. most of the ships cost 300k to over 1 million on material cost alone, not even adding in how much profit people want from the ship and how much it's actually worth! Hell, a frieghter costs about the same as a CITY if not two to three times more! Does this seem right to anyone who wants to buy a ship? Factories need workers, workers need pay, and the pay has to be worth enough to get what the workers want.

The question I'm posing is: How many people like paying 3 million for a ship when they could own two cities instead? How many people want the change to occur? I've heard what I'm saying is known, but I want to verbalize just how outragious the cost for EVERYTHING is.


Year 11 Day 102 16:17
Sim Karr

There's all kinds of places I could start with this. I'll just take the easy route and simple say: inflation. It happens with all games and economies. This game is actually very, very good in this aspect as I've played other RPG's that have been around only a third of the time and yet are many times worse.


Edited By: Sim Karr on Year 11 Day 102 16:18
Year 11 Day 102 16:59
Those "cities" you talk about, though, are empty plots of land. It'll cost you a lot more to actually build up the facilities to fill them out as cities. The cost are scaled to the amount that is yielded in proportion (the average FI city will pay for itself in 10-12 months, which isn't a bad investment). It's the secondary market (player-driven prices) and the volume of credit-producing systems that are being created by players that messes things up.


____________

"May the Grace of Ara go with you, and His Vengeance be wrought upon your enemies."

Only fools and children dream of heroes.
Year 11 Day 102 18:25
Besides those costs for cities is to lay down a slab - and unless you are extremely friendly with someone who controls a planet, you are not going to be able to do that. You'd have to pick up one of the slabs on the market which routinely go for 20-30mil+ - much more than a small freighter.

By comparison, that 3mil freighter may only take 1mil to actually build, including costs of mats and construction.


Year 11 Day 105 9:40
Keep in mind too, that you're talking about the prices for a nice, shiny new ship - in the SWC universe, they all are. In the SW universe, Luke was likely talking about an old beat up ship - the kind that would normally be seen in the Outer Rim. (Nubian queens breaking down notwithstanding.)

In the future when you'll be able to buy a ship at 74% "health", then you'll be able to dig through the bargain bin.


Year 11 Day 105 14:43
I know why the economy is so bad, but it's a restricted topic. :'-(


Year 11 Day 106 14:54
looking forward to see why Philip, since you then would be the first person able to explain it atleast for me. instead of just some random blanket statement with no facts or evidence behind it. Feel free to send me a message with it.


Year 11 Day 106 16:06
Year 11 Day 106 23:00
I too noticed the large prices on the ships when I first joined....In fact every this is inflated beyond the canon prices. All I can put it down to is greedy people....

But I'm sure if one ship building faction droped its prices, others would have to follow or risk loosing sales to cheaper products.


Year 11 Day 107 0:52
Dan Hakim

But I'm sure if one ship building faction droped its prices, others would have to follow or risk loosing sales to cheaper products.

- Srukk Boska
 


It's a nice idea, but it works the other way around, when ship producers see their ship for say 2million more than they're selling it for, a large number have decided to raise prices to keep up with the market. Demand is far higher than supply, so it's a sellers market. Any that do keep prices low usually end up swamped with orders and then have to close sales to catch up with their order book.


Year 11 Day 107 3:36
All I can put it down to is greedy people....

- "Srukk Boska"
 
Actually it's because there's not enough credit sinks. More credits enter the game (through facility income and taxes) than leave (NPC wages, etc.) So the ships have the same value, but cost more credits because credits aren't worth as much as the used to be, because there's more of them.

But I'm sure if one ship building faction dropped its prices, others would have to follow or risk loosing sales to cheaper products.

- "Srukk Boska"
 
Not likely, because most ships are faction-exclusive. Which means that only one faction produces that ship. So they could lower or raise their prices however much they want and they people will still buy them because there's no competition.

Any that do keep prices low usually end up swamped with orders and then have to close sales to catch up with their order book.

- "Dan Hakim"
 
Again, this is because of exclusive datacards. If multiple factions produced the same item, then the orders would be spread out amongst them and they wouldn't get swamped with orders. The competition would also drive prices down.


Year 11 Day 107 3:59
Again, this is because of exclusive datacards. If multiple factions produced the same item, then the orders would be spread out amongst them and they wouldn't get swamped with orders. The competition would also drive prices down.

- PB (You should get a sidekick named J, or maybe a favorite weapon *thinks of Vera*. Possibly a J-type 327? Nah, not enough sensors. Anyhoo...)
 


Prices would likely go down, but production capacity is still limited. Datacards would definitely be cheaper (remember when med factions got a bunch of new ones, some groups even gave them away); but the finished products require time, production facilities, and raw materials. Sprint DCs may have been free, but the ships have still been selling for over 4 million credits. Raw materials such as varium for shipyards have gone up in price, so it will still take the producers more money just to break even.


Year 11 Day 107 8:38
If multiple factions produced the same item, then the orders would be spread out amongst them and they wouldn't get swamped with orders. The competition would also drive prices down. 


The BFF-1 Bulk Freighter proves you're wrong. One of the factions that has the DC raises prices, the other one follows suit to avoid losing money. People do not "shop around" to get the best deal. It also doesn't matter whether or not the DC is shared by more than one faction, as in most cases there is something similar that can be used to get the job done. If the price of one of the YT-series freighters were lowered, the others (and a few other freighters) are sufficiently similar that competition should result in them dropping or lose business to the cheaper ship. But it doesn't happen.

Consumers in SWC are stupid, probably because there's so many credits floating around, and someone will buy something at a given price, meaning others have to as well if they want it. Those of us who refuse to pay ridiculous prices end up not buying anything, since the prices all around are retarded by now.


____________

"May the Grace of Ara go with you, and His Vengeance be wrought upon your enemies."

Only fools and children dream of heroes.
Year 11 Day 107 10:20
Sim Karr

Hear, hear!


Year 11 Day 107 11:04
There is no equilibrium price for items in the market. Like Hal said in a way, if people want something, no matter what the cost is they will buy it. There are so many credits flying around these days that spending it if you want it is not a problem.

Since there is only one currency in SWC, except for nova crystals, there is no balance of the value of the credits. IRL the value of a countries currency is based(in most cases that I know of) it's GDP, and simply printing more bills does not give them more money, it just lowers the value of that money. Since I doubt there will be different types of currency in the game for each type of government based on their and their NATs GDP, the the only fix for this is Credit Sinks.


Year 11 Day 107 14:19
Anyone else remember gas being $0.99/gallon? Why is it so expensive now? I'll tell you why...the disconnected admins, not enough credit sinks, and Interdictors! Oh, and the Vong & Ewoks not being playable races.

Sorry, tired and have a headache...needed to vent! :-)

((That was all sarcasm, btw. Please don't ban me. Or flame me.))


Edited By: Eli Nuwisha on Year 11 Day 107 14:20
Year 11 Day 107 15:02
Eli hits on a serious point, despite his sarcasm (which was hilarious, by the way):

Sure, there's inflation, that much is obvious. This can be fixed by adding more credit sinks, which is a work in progress. But that will only stop inflation, which is a relatively minor issue.

People think that by sinking credits prices will go down. Technically, stuff will cost less credits, but are still just as valuable since faction will probably cut wages making those credits harder to come by. Heck, it may make things worse depending on how factions react wage-wise. I'm not saying we shouldn't implement credit sinks like NPC crews, among other things. But I am saying it's not going to fix our problems.

Wanna know what will fix the economy? Making stuff more common!

If people actually produced items, then they wouldn't have quite such outrageous prices. The problem is that things like backpacks, lockers, and toolkits are precious commodities and not worthless every day objects. If most datacards were owned by at least three separate factions, there would be less backlogs and thus more incentive to produce without getting overwhelmed. There'd be more competition, which can drive prices down. Not to mention if a faction stops selling to the public, then there are others who can still produce. For crying out loud, no more backpacks are being introduced into the market because Galindas was looted and bought by a government!

But even then, factions aren't always able to produce, even if they want to. This is because RMs are so rare as well. Earth is resource rich: Oil, coal, natural gas, water, metals of all sorts, you name it! Are in abundance. I'd assume that in the SWC universe, most planets able to sustain life would also have such natural resources. I suggest increasing the size of all RM deposits by a large amount, adding more of those RM deposits, and scattering tons of smaller RM deposits on pretty much all planets except for those which canonically lack them (Naboo, for example. Which supposedly ran out of natural resources).

If datacards were more widely available, and abundant RMs were commonplace, a lot of SWCs economical problems would be solved.


Year 11 Day 107 16:24
Kun Zhi Hui

How about datapads?

I agree with you that datacards are too few and far between. The implemation of datapads might alievate that... But then again, it might not as factions won't rent out datacards.
So, I'm thinking that more datacards will come out closer to R & D so I think it wise to wait until then. More and more R&D factions will come out and more and more datacards will come out. However, this does not solve the problem because the datacards are still private...

So, here's my Ultimate Economy Fix
-Credit Sink the $--- outta the combine
-lower costs to make things (except Interdictors and SSD's)
-implement datapads for the public in stuff (stations or buildings) that use datacards. Sort of like buying an NCP.

*I know it sucks :) Don't yell too much at me and don't ban me!


Year 11 Day 107 18:52
Apparently RMs are nowhere near as rare as anyone thinks. A recent relevation to me means that in actualy fact we would only run out of materials after a seriously long period of game time (ie think several hundred years). People need to prospect, and keep on prospecting. I don't think I'm allowed to tell you how or why, but some players apparently have already come accross it.


Year 11 Day 108 13:09
the reason why not more is produced is in all honesty manpower. if you break it down into minor components one of the keyfactors are manpower. It is no problem to produce and maintaine a very large infrastructure if you have the manpower to do so. Unfortunatelly most do not. and I am guessing even fewer will have since it seems to me that swc is going towards adding more "administration" and time consuming but necessary things.

edit: actually make that manpower and trust between people


Edited By: Tyr DeMeer on Year 11 Day 108 13:10
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