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Year 11 Day 212 20:09
Ricgard Svansen

I think I have a decent idea of how the sensor ranges work, but I'm clueless as to how the range is rotated around the source of the scanner (ship, character). Does anyone have any sort of graphic that shows the scanner layout? Something sort of like this:

link
(that layout is apparently incorrect)

I'd need the layouts for the more extreme sensor capabilities, too, with ranges at 7 and 9.

Any help would be greatly appreciated!

EDIT:

And sorry for the obnoxiously large image. Switched to a link.


Edited By: Ricgard Svansen on Year 11 Day 212 20:11
Year 11 Day 213 1:51
I believe you're missing a "floor" function within the application. Distance is calculated using the manhattan distance function, and then floored, then compared against sensor power.

Note that sensor rules are going to be changed slightly for creature combat.


____________

"Clarr's a big mean jerk and he steals my lunch money and makes me cry."
Year 11 Day 213 5:46
Ricgard Svansen

A bit mathematically challenged :P

I must completely misunderstand how this is working. On the rules page, it says that scanner distance is calculated like this:

2 * rounddown(Ln(Number of Sensors)) + 1

Giving the following shifts in sensor range by sensors equipped:
[min sensors] - [range]
1 - 1
3 - 3
8 - 5
21 - 7
55 - 9

Then, using the manhattan method (as far as I can tell, probably quite far off), something more like this grid is gotten:
link

But based on that not matching the one provided in the rules...
link

...I think I'm missing something.

If the manhattan method is used (which, from what I can tell, only uses integer values provided by the sensor range calculation), why does there need to be any floor function?


Year 11 Day 215 15:19
Ricgard Svansen

Could really use some help with this. According to the rules page, the formula for calculating sensor range is this:
2 * rounddown(Ln(Number of Sensors)) + 1

Let's use the ISD as an example. It has sensors of 21. According to this formula, it should have a range of 7, yes?

ln(21) = 3.045
rounddown(3.045) = 3
2 * (3) = 6
1 + (6) = 7

However, looking at an actual ISD, it has a range of 8. All this is before my confusion about how the the range is rotated to different angles. Is the formula on the rules page not up-to-date? Also, looking at the scanner area, there is more scanned space on the left and right sides of the scanner field than on the top and bottom sides. I'm sure you can understand my confusion :P


Edited By: Ricgard Svansen on Year 11 Day 215 15:36
Year 11 Day 215 20:40
I think scanner range is done by making a square out to the limit of the sensor range. So 7 in your ISD case. Then the corners are knocked off, and a square added to the middle of each side. At least thats how I remember someone telling me how it was determined.


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Ellias_sig6.png
Year 11 Day 215 20:54
Ricgard Svansen

That'd make sense, but according to the rules (specifically the image included), that range matches fine with the sensor strength and its equation to calculate the range.

But here's an example with an ISD. Note the layer second from the outside on the left and right being wider than the top and bottom. I hope no one takes this as any sort of criticism, I'd just like to know how it's all calculated.

EDIT:
Again, for quick reference, an ISD has a sensor-count of 21 and should therefore have a range of 7. This particular ISD may be custom (though I rather doubt it). That still wouldn't help me with the exact tile mapping of the sensors.


Edited By: Ricgard Svansen on Year 11 Day 215 20:56
Year 11 Day 216 8:24
Here's the math that -should- be relevant:

P = Power on Square
X,Y = origin point (coordinate pair)
H,K = Target point (coordinate pair)
S = Sensors on ship

P = floor(S/((sqrt(X-H)^2 + (Y-K)^2)+1))


Year 11 Day 216 8:34
(helps if i log in before posting...)

Unfortunately, this isnt the formula used. The rules LIE.

I cant even come up with a formula because the circle isnt symmetrical. (Look at your ISD picture. If it were symmetrical, there would be one extra sensor-enabled space...)
Which says to me that the formula is based on the X-coordinate only. SWC is lazy with their formulas like that.


Edited By: Tavis Ram on Year 11 Day 216 10:24
Year 11 Day 216 15:30
Ricgard Svansen

Exactly! But Clarr said that there'd be modifications to the sensor rules when creature combat is released. Has the rules page already been updated to reflect these rules? If not, will the equation in the rules section be updated to fully explain how the sensors work?


Year 11 Day 217 0:21
Clearly, if there's going to be a change in the way sensors operate, I need to know ASAP!

Can we expect the rules to be updated accordingly, with proper equations, etc. when the change happens?


Year 11 Day 217 3:12
Urgh, brain slip. Try Euclidean distance rounded down to the nearest integer.