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Year 12 Day 185 14:49
He didn't say: "It's the bugs fault. Bugged. Bug got my credits. I blame the bug." He said: "Is it possible"

Huge difference. 

Not really, as saying "I didn't get credits" is IC but blaming bugged game is totally OOC and gives admins rights to check the events.
You can't steal snickers in a market and blame "bugged" security cameras.
Just my opinion though.


Edited By: Ayva Kilvaari on Year 12 Day 185 14:49
Year 12 Day 185 14:51
Hal if you were a scammer would you say you said that? Or Admit to it now that he is banned for possibly saying that?


Edited By: Jan`ru Shara on Year 12 Day 185 14:52
Year 12 Day 185 15:03
Jan'ru, if we assume Shuji is that smart, wouldn't that mean he wouldn't have said it in the first place?

Kir Jax's word that something was said is not evidence.

I prefer there to be evidence backing up the bans in this game. And for that evidence to have been available to the person imposing the ban before the ban was placed.


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"May the Grace of Ara go with you, and His Vengeance be wrought upon your enemies."

Only fools and children dream of heroes.
Year 12 Day 185 15:05
Well if we assume that he is that smart that wouldn't of said it in the first place then we can also safely assume that if he did say it he possibly didn't think this would happen due to him saying it.


Year 12 Day 185 15:09
Ayva,

That could of easily been added on by Kir, because their TYPED IRC Logs, not screenshotted...

Kir could of easily added the possible bug bit onto the IRC Log, to stir up the shit between Shuji and the Admin Team resulting in a ban, because Kir lost out on his X-Ceptors...

Unless solid proof was given that Shuji said it was a possible bug, there shouldn't of been an ASim Interfierance (sp?.)...

If Shuji did say it, Jenos would of had full right to go check the events, and issue the ban if it turned out that Shuji had been lying, but yet I see no evidence of Shuji actually claiming it could of been a bug.

Heck, I could go around and write stuff like

[12:23] Rawth> I'm Snarqs Multi

But heck, who could prove it? No one. There is no solid evidence to back up such a claim in that magnitude of a Multi situation, then there is no solid evidence to prove it in Shuji's Case.

Note: Rawth didn't say anything about being Snarq's Multi, I used it as an example to prove a point. In such a case of breaking the rules as someone admitting they are an illegal multi, I would report it to the Combine Administration.


Edited By: Gavin Rollan on Year 12 Day 185 15:14
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Year 12 Day 185 15:18
Sithe Vapshe

I looked up the even in question. it is in jax's very first post where he was posting "logs" I copied a small section to put it here.

[14:19] not that I actually have the ships. as I said, I sold them
[14:26] http://www.swcombine.com/forum/thread.php?thread=47773&page=0
[14:26] saw that thats why I posted
[14:26] now why would you do something like that? All I said is that i've not recived the credits. how does that make me a scammer? Is it possible, in this bug-infested game, that they got lost?
Session Close: Wed Jun 01 14:32:02 2011

now reading that it is simply stated that it is a bug infested game. which last I checked it is. Also IRC logs are very easily faked and if you look at jax's post he didnt put any names to any conversations. how do we know he didnt just make the logs up or if they are real who was saying what? it could have been Jax asking if the credits could be lost in a bug ridden game. the ban is BS plain and simple


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Kill 1 person your a murderer, Kill a thousand your a warlord, Kill em all and your a god.
Year 12 Day 185 15:20
Yes, but wouldn't Shuji say something about fogred logs? I mean, hey those were posted in Kir's first post.
If Shuji didn't say they are forged, I consider them as a valid evidence.


Year 12 Day 185 15:22
Unless solid proof was given that Shuji said it was a possible bug, there shouldn't of been an ASim Interfierance

- Gavin Rollan
 


Shuji didn't need to say/imply it was a bug for an Asim to get involved. If I were in Kir's shoes, I would have filed a bug report or contacted an Asim myself (without Shuji needing to claim it to be a bug). The situation is what is implying that there was a bug, not Shuji himself.


Year 12 Day 185 15:24
Sithe Vapshe

why would he say something about forged logs? hes already a scammer and he simply said he hadn't gotten the credits and that the game is bug ridden. Which is completely true. this game is riddled with bugs all the time.


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Kill 1 person your a murderer, Kill a thousand your a warlord, Kill em all and your a god.
Year 12 Day 185 15:24
Uhmgeanenrn Atgero

You are ignoring, Mozin, that we have commonly seen the excuse in the past. The problem is that most people badly fake a screenshot to "prove" it, and it gets pulled apart by the artists. The only example I'm aware of with someone actually getting away with it is Gitane, which I mentioned previously.

- Hal
 


Besides getting away with the Bayo theft, I had wanted to invalidate screenshots as "proof" of guilt (IC not OOC).

Copy/paste of irc logs should never be used as proof of cheating IC/OOC.


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Stop 'im, he crowned me in the knickers and nicked me crown
Year 12 Day 185 15:34
Sithe if you have ever copied and pasted logs onto the forums you will see it cuts the names off if the person doesn't take the off and maybe we can have Shuji post screenshots of his logs on the same conversation.


Year 12 Day 185 15:37
If Shuji didn't say they are forged, I consider them as a valid evidence. 


I pray you never make ASim.

Or worse, a RL judge. Or cop. Or, well, anything associated with justice being done.

Shuji didn't need to say/imply it was a bug for an Asim to get involved. If I were in Kir's shoes, I would have filed a bug report or contacted an Asim myself (without Shuji needing to claim it to be a bug). The situation is what is implying that there was a bug, not Shuji himself. 


It's a trade dispute. ASims do not get involved in trade disputes. Lying is a legal IC action. There are years of precedents for it.

If Shuji SAID it was a bug, that's a different matter. It's also a world of difference between Xabia saying "it's a known bug, send again" and Shuji mentioning that the game is bug-ridden. IF he did, it was a poor choice. BUT, there was no proof that he did when Jenos banned him.

Evidence first. Ban second.


____________

"May the Grace of Ara go with you, and His Vengeance be wrought upon your enemies."

Only fools and children dream of heroes.
Year 12 Day 185 15:39
Sithe Vapshe

Ive posted logs on here from irc and know the names are cut off. Ive taken the time to copy them in by hand. which most people accept but is also easily FAKED


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Kill 1 person your a murderer, Kill a thousand your a warlord, Kill em all and your a god.
Year 12 Day 185 15:46
It's a trade dispute. ASims do not get involved in trade disputes. Lying is a legal IC action. There are years of precedents for it.

- Hal
 


Once a potential bug is implied (by Hal not receiving the credits I know I sent, not by someone needing to shout out "It's a bug!"), it is an Asim issue. Unless you know of some other solution to bug investigation/reporting that doesn't involve Asim intervention, it was the only outcome.

Lying has nothing to do with it. If Hal didn't receive the credits, a bug report/intervention is my only option. Which is OOC.


Year 12 Day 185 15:50
Drestin von Degistern

Lying has nothing to do with it. If Hal didn't receive the credits, a bug report/intervention is my only option. Which is OOC.

- Mozinwrath
 


Yes. This^

BUT!!!! Shuji himself did not say it was a bug, nor did he get the ASims involved. He simply said that he didn't receive any of Kir's money. Which, could be interpreted as Shuji calling Kir a liar, and that would still be IC*!


**I think. My IC/OOC separation skills aren't the best, as a few might know. >_>


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Year 12 Day 185 15:52
Sithe Vapshe

but lying IC saying I didnt get the money is indeed legal. its a scam. if it was a bug it would be happening to more than just you and something like that theres bound to be talk on. Simply lying and saying I didnt get it in no way says bug. maybe you typed the wrong name? if the asims get involved then thats their choice and should have nothing to do with the players. want to prevent the issue? USE A MIDDLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! If dac tells you he didnt get the money then that you can believe. send first and you take responsibility for your lost funds


Edited By: Sithe Vapshe on Year 12 Day 185 15:54
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Kill 1 person your a murderer, Kill a thousand your a warlord, Kill em all and your a god.
Year 12 Day 185 15:56
/me sighs.

My (IC!! In Charachter) action was to say that I hadn't recived Kir's money. My IC action was basicaly me pocketing the money, turning around, looking innocent, and saying,'Huh? What money?'

There was no OOC action involved here, whatsoever, as far as what I did is concerned. What other people have said is irrelevant in that particular case. So if Hal was to scam Mozinwrath, and I came along and troll-posted 'There might be a bug involved!' then Hal would be banned? That's basically what's happened here.


Year 12 Day 185 15:59
to continue from DvD....

or as Shuji playing out a scam.. which is allowed. Its not wrong to say you didn't receive the money, especially if you are a lying, thieving character. It would almost be expected.

Hell, when the bill collectors call me and leave a message irl, and then one day they finally catch up with me, and I say I didn't get the messages, that's just me being a deadbeat. They don't ask my phone service provider if I am telling the truth. no they hunt me down and repossess my car.

This is purely a fictional example. I in no way, shape or form own a phone, a car, or allow bill collectors to catch up with me.

And again... to beat this horse into the ground.... Kir has failed to provide valid evidence that it was indeed something that Shuji said, or insinuated (which for the record he very well might have)



Year 12 Day 185 16:56
Again I state the obvious. This is Kir Jax getting scammed and whining and moaning about it and stooping to low levels to "get back." The rest of you are just enjoying hearing your heads rattle and that's about it. There was no saying "it was a bug" and there was no OOC action. I was there, I read the posts as he did it and what's more...I ENCOURAGED him on and what's wrong with that? Almost everybody scams in this game at one time or another. Good goddess people! It was a handful of X-ceptors! It's not like my man sold the crown jewels or something.

Oh well Imma just sit here and read the rest of your amusing comments.


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Year 12 Day 185 20:23
I am in complete agreement with Hal, it is a bullshit ban over an IC matter. Shuji didn't ask ASims to investigate, others did - nobody had a right to, it's an IC matter.

If I claim to have sent Hal 10mil for a YT he never sent me, he can fake logs claiming he sent me the YT, or fake logs claiming he never received any money from me - that's not "asking ASims to verify", that's theft - it's part of the game.

We've been posting photoshopped screenshots for ten years in this game, and we argue IC over who to believe...it's simply not an OOC issue. And if somebody does believe it's a bug, then at most an ASim can say "there was no bug", but he shouldn't even confirm/deny whether or not money exchanged hands in public.


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