::Forum - Ahem....'scuse me.... - Star Wars Combine::

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Year 12 Day 185 13:30	Ahem....'scuse me....
Hal Breden	GET OVER THE FREAKING SCREENSHOT! It's perfectly legal and has been done for YEARS! ____________ "May the Grace of Ara go with you, and His Vengeance be wrought upon your enemies." Only fools and children dream of heroes.

Year 12 Day 185 13:58	Ahem....'scuse me....
Mozinwrath Blackfrost	I never said it wasn't "legal". I said- “but going out of your way to create a screenshot that supported the possibility of a bug. - Me ” Once the possibility that there may be a bug involved (which was supported by the "legal" screenshot), it is no longer an IC trade related issue. It's an OOC bug investigation. The "trade" was never tampered with. Kir didn't get his credits back, and Shuji didn't lose his ill-gotten gains. I hope. (In which case, I could imagine their actually being a reason to be up in arms over it) There were countless responses that Shuji could have picked, but instead hinted at the possibility of a bug. Wrong move.

Year 12 Day 185 13:59	Ahem....'scuse me....
Guest/Visitor	^What Hal said. The fact of the matter is that Jenos is wrong. Not only did he hijack my account and give out IC information, he also banned me(No, it wasn't Talor) based on a copy/paste of an IRC log, which has been proven time and time again to be unreliable *Disclaimer: No, I am not stating that the log is fake, only that it dosen't constitute evidence. Nobody deserves to be banned because an Admin is having a bad day. From what I can tell, Jenos is pissy about being one of the few admins that are constantly active(his words) and having to do all of this. I appreciate that, I really do. And I know that it can be a major job. But that dosen't mean that he should be able to ban me, or anyone else(eyes Drestin and Sia) based on rules that don't exit, or evidence that is invalid to say the least. Again, this was an IC matter between Kir Jax and myself, and it required no intervention whatsoever. The only ooc anything was other people posting in the traders lounge thread about a damn bug. Have been given a 30 day ban, the same as people like illegial multis or those who harass people ooc get. This is quite frankly ridiculous. So, back to my original request. I request that I be unbanned immediately, due to the fact that I was banned without any valid evidence whatsoever.

Year 12 Day 185 14:02	Ahem....'scuse me....
Teyacapan Quetzalxochitl	So you're not saying that the log is fake. Good. Does that mean this topic can be laid to rest?

Year 12 Day 185 14:05	Ahem....'scuse me....
Hal Breden	Mozin, the screenshot supports his claim that he never received credits. That's him lying IC, and is perfectly acceptable. The context doesn't come into it. He was banned for saying the word "bug". Sorry, wait... he was banned for allegedly saying the word "bug". If he hadn't been accused of saying "bug", there would be no ban, with or without screenshot. If he hadn't faked a screenshot, he'd still have been accused of saying the word "bug" The screenshot is irrelevant. ____________ "May the Grace of Ara go with you, and His Vengeance be wrought upon your enemies." Only fools and children dream of heroes.

Year 12 Day 185 14:05	Ahem....'scuse me....
Vito Royan	Shuji theres no point... These people are too hard headed, and you can't change their mind. Ugh... they are so blind and dumb, it upsets me :'( ____________

Year 12 Day 185 14:07	Ahem....'scuse me....
Guest/Visitor	'bug' /me waits for a permaban Because that's essentially what this is.

Year 12 Day 185 14:09	Ahem....'scuse me....
Hal Breden	“So you're not saying that the log is fake. Good. Does that mean this topic can be laid to rest? ” No, because there's no way that Jenos could have verified the log when he put the ban in place. Or to put it another way, he banned without evidence. Do you want an ASim running around that will ban without evidence? I don't. Jenos could have started an investigation. He could have spoken to Shuji. He could have checked the log was real and Shuji said the word "bug". He didn't. He acted inappropriately. Whether or not Shuji deserves the ban or not is completely besides the point. If he does, it's because Jenos was lucky. He may as well have flipped a coin. ____________ "May the Grace of Ara go with you, and His Vengeance be wrought upon your enemies." Only fools and children dream of heroes.

Year 12 Day 185 14:13	Ahem....'scuse me....
Teyacapan Quetzalxochitl	He banned him based on the logs being posted and being undisputed. (I assume, without using my mind reading powers)

Year 12 Day 185 14:17	Ahem....'scuse me....
Hal Breden	The logs without names on them? The logs that were right at the very end of the post and could possibly have been overlooked by someone skimming over it? We're banning on "you didn't deny it" now? ____________ "May the Grace of Ara go with you, and His Vengeance be wrought upon your enemies." Only fools and children dream of heroes.

Year 12 Day 185 14:22	Ahem....'scuse me....
Teyacapan Quetzalxochitl	Why would it need names? It's a PM between two people, it's perfectly clear which is which. And yes, if the second person posts in the same topic a bit further down and doesn't bother pointing out that the logs are false, I think it can safely be assumed that they are not false..

Year 12 Day 185 14:25	Ahem....'scuse me....
Guest/Visitor	For the record, at no time has Jenos contacted me. At all. [05:26] .Shuji-Heika> now why would you do something like that? All I said is that i've not recived the credits. how does that make me a scammer? Is it possible, in this bug-infested game, that they got lost? Now, let us analyse for a moment. I asked a question. Did I say 'It's probably a bug'? Did I say'blame a bug'? Did I say' file a bugbase report about it'? No. I said, 'is it possible in this bug infested game, that they got lost?' Is the game bug infested? Yes. In fact, all that I did was ask Kir whether or not he believed it to be possible. Now I appreciate that anyone could have taken it the wrong way. But 'I thought he meant it in a bad way' is not grounds for a 30day ban. Or, for that matter, any ban at all. This all boils down to this: Jenos got banhappy and gave me 30 days without bothering to check. Had he checked, he would know that I have at no point ever blamed a bug for this. At all. Whatsoever.

Year 12 Day 185 14:29	Ahem....'scuse me....
Teyacapan Quetzalxochitl	Semantics.

Year 12 Day 185 14:30	Ahem....'scuse me....
Mozinwrath Blackfrost	“We're banning on "you didn't deny it" now? - Hal ” Would you prefer that "It's a bug" (an OOC reference to game mechanics) becomes a perfectly legitimate scam response? It's bad enough that the game development is as slow as it is. Throw in every victim of the "It's a bug" scams filing reports/contacting Asims for verification, and it's going to get a lot slower. The line needs to be drawn somewhere.

Year 12 Day 185 14:41	Ahem....'scuse me....
Hal Breden	I would like for an ASim to do due diligence on a report before banning someone. I don't believe "it's a bug" is a valid excuse for a scam. But until a few posts ago where he confirmed it, there was no proof that Shuji had said that. There is no reason for Jenos not to wait a few hours to confirm the exchange and that Shuji was trying to blame a bug. Kir's word is not evidence. It is not proof. It doesn't matter where it was posted and who did or did not respond to one single line in a post. ____________ "May the Grace of Ara go with you, and His Vengeance be wrought upon your enemies." Only fools and children dream of heroes.

Year 12 Day 185 14:43	Ahem....'scuse me....
Tyrrvokk Nysshyyyk	“ Semantics. - Teyacapan Quetzalxochitl ” In reading the threads as they stand now, not as they stood 3 hrs/days/months/yrs ago, semantics is what got Shuji banned.

Year 12 Day 185 15:04	Ahem....'scuse me....
Siarica Aylina	"one image says a thousand words" In this case, it does... but always the same one. ____________ Currently semi-active until early june.

Year 12 Day 185 15:10	Ahem....'scuse me....
Gavin Rollan	“The screenshot is irrelevant. - Hal ” Screenshots have always been faked. If a fake screenshot in an IC is illegal, thats something they told no player, or made it up to warrant a ban... which isn't right anyway The next point I come to is Jenos using the Hijack tool to log into Shuji's account.. The Hijack tool is used, as far as I'm aware, to sort out a problem with the player's account, or test something in the combine which an admin can't do for a specific reason... NOT ... getting into Character Affairs (In this case, a scam), checking the credits was recieved, then RELEASING this data to another character whilst implementing a ban which had no evidence against it. “We will not collect any personal data from you unless you provide it voluntarily by providing us with your freely given specific and informed consent - SWC Disclaimer ” I skimmed over the disclaimer, and this just stood out. Even though this is technically for OOC Personal Data (IP Addresses, Names, Ages, Addresses). This is effectively collecting data from a player, or a player's account. In this case, Jenos used the Hijack tool to collect a form of data, from Shuji's account. In this case, even though it was IC Data, it still is a violation of the disclaimer, as it says NO data would be collected, unless volenteered. Unless I'm mistaken, Shuji didn't volenteer this information to Kir, and Jenos gave it to him, getting involved in IC Affairs. Kir shouldn't of even took this to the administration, as Shuji said, and I QUOTE... “[14:26] now why would you do something like that? All I said is that i've not recived the credits. how does that make me a scammer? Is it possible, in this bug-infested game, that they got lost? ” He didn't blame the bug, he said it was a bug infested game, and looking at bugs.swcombine.com I could agree with him... tl;dr - Screenshots can be faked Jenos illegally gave character data out without account owners permission Kir shouldn't of taken it to the admins I'm siding with Shuji. ____________

Year 12 Day 185 15:49	Ahem....'scuse me....
Tyris Elensar	It's kinda funny how the defenders measure with dual standards; It is OK to imply there is a bug (OOC cause for not receiving credits) But when an OOC Admin goes to investigate a possible OOC issue, which only can be done by accessing IC information, it's bad, and the admin must be deaded? Shuji implied there might be an OOC Kir tried making sure there was no OOC bug. An OOC Admin investigates, but can only use IC means to do so (Is checking credit transactions really breaking the IC/OOC Seperation rule?) If Shuji didn't imply there might be a bug, Jenos' time would not be wasted. He should've just use an IC reason. ____________ You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life ~ Winston Churchill

Year 12 Day 185 16:50	Ahem....'scuse me....
Ayva Kilvaari	“I skimmed over the disclaimer, and this just stood out. Even though this is technically for OOC Personal Data (IP Addresses, Names, Ages, Addresses). This is effectively collecting data from a player, or a player's account. In this case, Jenos used the Hijack tool to collect a form of data, from Shuji's account. In this case, even though it was IC Data, it still is a violation of the disclaimer, as it says NO data would be collected, unless volenteered. - Gav ” Personal Data is well determined by the law. It's not violation of the disclaimer because account is not your property. Believe me or not, but all accounts, datas and ect are actually owned by server or site owner. That's why you don't personally own, for example, WoW account. It's still owned by Blizzard and you just rent it by paying monthly subscription. That's why they can block it, delete it, log on it and ect. Edited By: Ayva Kilvaari on Year 12 Day 185 16:50

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