::Forum - Admin Stance on Bugs and Scamming

Year 12 Day 186 4:08	Admin Stance on Bugs and Scamming
Elijah Shoryyhn	This is particularly directed to Arete, but any ASim may answer. As has been pointed out in oh-so-many threads, screen shots can be faked. How will I be protected during the course of a legitimate trade when someone fakes screenshots trying to say that I said it was a bug? It's obvious both accounts can be checked for this information but only if it was via DMs and of course events can be checked for information. However, what if the trade took place over IRC, MSN, or any other medium how am I protected? As it stands it seems to me that this decision can leave a lot of innocent people at the mercy of those able to photoshop well.

Year 12 Day 186 4:15	Admin Stance on Bugs and Scamming
Ka`rla Leakey	Perhaps it will just be a lesson that if you are going to scam somebody, at least own up to it early before admins are needlessly involved.

Year 12 Day 186 4:36	Admin Stance on Bugs and Scamming
Elijah Shoryyhn	Aye, after reading the Sim News again it seems it's only directed to those scum known as scammers. Arete can you confirm and maybe share some amplifying information?

Year 12 Day 186 4:47	Admin Stance on Bugs and Scamming
Teyacapan Quetzalxochitl	I don't really understand this. You are not now, and have never been in the past, protected during any trade.

Year 12 Day 186 4:51	Admin Stance on Bugs and Scamming
Elijah Shoryyhn	Protected from exploitation of the decision made by Arete. It's not that hard to figure out.

Year 12 Day 186 5:00	Admin Stance on Bugs and Scamming
Teyacapan Quetzalxochitl	So you are asking how the administration will be sure that, when they ban someone for mentioning bugs, the person is not being set up via false information. Okay then. It'll be interesting to see the answer, but it will probably be along the same lines as anything that involves player provided information. And apparently it -was- that hard to figure out for me.

Year 12 Day 186 8:07	Admin Stance on Bugs and Scamming
Arete	My stance on the matter is that if player A scams player B and explicitly states that a "bug" or "ASim/Administration" is to blame (i.e., the case of Xabia v. Zenon) or implies it's a bug ("I didn't get the credits, but it's a bug-filled game so that's probably the reason") then it's against the rules. Any other form of lie, persuasion and trickery is within the bounds of the trade dispute. If player B asks "was it a bug," player A is under no obligation to confirm nor deny the question and since player A didn't explicitly use it as their excuse, then it's a valid question and won't get the person in trouble. Player B can ask the ASim's to check into whether it's a bug, and we will, and when we say there's no bug, player B has the answer on whether they've been scammed. If they hadn't known already. Edit: As per faked screenshots specifically, that strikes me as an IC method to deceive someone. Traders have always been, and will continue to be, at the mercy of those with good photoshopping abilities. Where Xabia claimed to Zenon, in the course of his scam, that the ASim's had been telling people that there was a bug in credit transfers and that if it didn't show up the first time, to send the credits twice and that there would be no redundancy. Clearly that was false. Edited By: Arete on Year 12 Day 186 8:17

Year 12 Day 186 9:01	Admin Stance on Bugs and Scamming
Elijah Shoryyhn	Thanks Arete for the reply and explanation on the matter.

Year 12 Day 186 9:06
Tiali Bixa-Loca	Deleted by Tiali Bixa-Loca. Reason: It's not worth it

Year 12 Day 186 9:15	Admin Stance on Bugs and Scamming
Arete	I'm unsure what you're exactly making reference to Tiali or what it relates to in this conversation. ____________ I am upset things like this happen. I get upset over every godamn thing. ~ Any given SWC player on any given day.

Year 12 Day 186 10:16	Admin Stance on Bugs and Scamming
Teyacapan Quetzalxochitl	I believe the question was more about OOC screenshots, not IC ones. What if someone creates false evidence implicating someone in order to get them banned?

Year 12 Day 186 13:02	Admin Stance on Bugs and Scamming
Arete	I feel that if someone goes out of their way to make a screenshot implicating someone else in a bannable offense, the ASims will look into the matter and likely end up banning the person who tried to get someone else banned. Seems pretty straightforward as a situation. Edit: Furthermore, faking a screenshot with the intent to forge evidence in order to have someone banned seems like a clear violation of the golden rule as well and thus also bannable. Edited By: Arete on Year 12 Day 186 14:18

Year 12 Day 187 2:08	Admin Stance on Bugs and Scamming
Kuro Neko	“ I feel that if someone goes out of their way to make a screenshot implicating someone else in a bannable offense, the ASims will look into the matter and likely end up banning the person who tried to get someone else banned. - Arete ” It might be my mis-reading of the above ... but you surely don't mean that if I spot some group discussing, e.g. on IRC/MSN, a game exploit and planning how to break rules to gain advantage (and subsequently they do so) and I took a screenshot and reported them... that I would get banned? “ Edit: Furthermore, faking a screenshot with the intent to forge evidence in order to have someone banned seems like a clear violation of the golden rule as well and thus also bannable. - Arete ” I agree completely, but the question is: how can you tell it's fake? (If it's an OOC screenshot) ____________ There is no god but Ara... All will walk his path...

Year 12 Day 187 4:15	Admin Stance on Bugs and Scamming
Tyr DeMeer	he´s saying that you can not go and make, as in create a fake, screenshot. ____________

Year 12 Day 187 5:24	Admin Stance on Bugs and Scamming
Jevon Lambright	Kuro, if you know what you are looking for, you can usually find a way to tell if its a fake. Very tiny differences that a lot of people wouldn't notice. I won't name them here or people would start being smarter about how they did it. ____________

Year 12 Day 187 8:39	Admin Stance on Bugs and Scamming
Ellias Aubec	Plus the fact the ASims can just hijack the persons account and have a look at the real page they are faking. ____________

Year 12 Day 187 8:43	Admin Stance on Bugs and Scamming
Teyacapan Quetzalxochitl	Which has nothing to do with someone creating false evidence on sources outside of the administration's sphere of influence to accuse another of using false bug claims to scam a player.

Year 12 Day 187 8:43	Admin Stance on Bugs and Scamming
Arete	Kuro, re-reading my statement I see how it's unclear. What I mean is: Player A makes a screenshot implicating Player B in something bannable. That sort of action would get player A a temp ban instead.

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	14	171	17:23:53

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