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Archives » Should we expect consideration or leniancy from the admins towards the players in unfortunate situations?
Hyde Solari

Hello there

I bring this to the attention of the admins and any player who might be interested.

Recently, my cousin found my SWC login information and decided to play a prank on me, using my password to drop my character, destroying all the hard work I have done in SWC over more than 5 years.

Immediately after this, I contacted the admins, explaining the situation and requesting them to undo what occurred or at least to help me by saving my FS status with a new character FS after waiting the re-spawn period.

I had the luck to become FS with my first character, I have spent most of my career in FS communities, reaching the level of Jedi Master, which is an honor to me, training and testing many FS characters over the years and even reaching some of the highest leadership positions as a Jedi in my faction, the Jedi Order. This has been my life in SWC and without my FS status I am literally losing the core and the essence of it all.

Because of this, I happened to mention that if they couldn't or wouldn't help me either by reviving my character or by allowing me to save my FS status, I would end up recreating as many times as it took to be FS once again, even if it took months or years because of the 21 day waiting period.

Unfortunately, I was surpriced to get a response saying not only that the admins would not help me at all, but also saying that even this last alternative wouldn't be allowed and if I tried to recreate to become FS I would be banned

For the reasons explained, I honestly have no intention of playing a non-FS character after all these years and if the admins position regarding the unfortunate situation that caused me to lose this together with their interpretation of the rules end up having me banned if I use the only resource I have left, thus preventing me from any way to continue playing a FS character, I'm afraid I will end up leaving the game altogether. I'm very saddened to say this, and I would hate to leave SWC. I sill feel I can give a lot to the SWC community as I have done for more than 5 years, but this is how I feel.

This is why I thought it would be enlightening to open the discussion here and share this with the admins and the community.

Should we expect consideration or leniancy from the admins towards the players in unfortunate situations?

I ask everyone for your honest opinion.
Thank you for your time





PS: I'm adding a copy of every post in the support ticket so you can see how the discussion went so far.
***
Sat, Sep 27 2014 22:25
Hello everyone,

I sent an email to assistants@swcombine and a DM to Arjuna; Black Knight; Erek; Jennifer Dreighton; Kyle Rainer; Jesfa; Selatos; Ghost; Zhao Yun and Veynom
about this, but I got no answer yet, so I thought maybe it would be a good idea to bug you guys here just in case. I hope you don't mind.

I'm bothering you because something pretty bad happened to me... or to my character to be more specific. A few days ago, on Day 299, I left my laptop unguarded at home for a while and my cousin found it with a file where I keep my passwords open. He logged in to SWC using my password and and killed my character, his idea of a prank apparently.

I know there's a policy of not reviving dead characters, but I also know that some exceptions were made in the past, like the case of Onasha Katr not too long ago. I know the situation is very different, but I don't know, I still thought I'd make the request and ask for advice. Is it possible to undo this? I'm not sure if you are in charge of these matters, in case it's not your thing, who do you think I should talk to about this?

It might be relevant for you to notice that I was leader of the Jedi Academy when this happened, and I didn't assign a 2IC, so this caused a pretty clear randomness with the leader change in the JA, leaving a rookie in charge of the faction until I alerted the owner and he joined the faction to replace him.

You can also check my recent DMs (sent and received) that reflect what happened.

I know my chances of getting my character resurrected are slim, but I still thought it was worth the shot. I've invested more than 5 years in this character and I was lucky enough to be FS, so I'm very discouraged about this whole thing, I hope you guys can help me out. Even if it's not possible to bring my character back I hope there's something you could do for me in this situation, like I said I was lucky to have a FS character, so if I have to recreate I thought maybe you could help me out by making my new character FS? I don't know if this is possible either... the truth is after so many years I'm not really interested in playing a non-FS character, I hope you can help me out somehow.

Any help you can give me will be immensely appreciated. I'll be looking forward for your reply.

Thanks in advance,
Hyde Solari
Sat, Oct 4 2014 20:44 - Ghost
This is difficult for me. I feel for the situation but swc is not a straightforward game. Someone who is not familiar with it would not be able to simply log in and kill you.. Be it by flying into a sun or dropping... That said, it is hard to prove if it was real or not. Ni am not saying I do not believe you, I am saying that I need to be convinced. As it sits, it looks more like possibly something you may have done by mistake or done and regretted.


How did you die? Who is this person?
Sat, Oct 4 2014 23:23
Thanks a lot for your reply,

I get how this looks like and I understand your doubts. To be honest with you, I don't have any proof regarding what happened. This was done from my own computer and with my password. I know you don't have any reason to trust me, but all I have is my word and my reputation which is crystal clean after more than 5 years playing SWC.

I'm a diplomat for the Jedi Order and the Jedi Academy, so I'm registered to many faction forums, this is why I keep a text file with all these SWC related passwords in my laptop. What happened is I was checking some forums for updates and I left for a few minutes, leaving this file open on the screen. My cousin found it, saw my SWC handle and password, logged in and dropped my character, again using my password. He knew how to do it because he played the game for some time a few years ago, around the time when I started playing myself. I can't provide any information because I honestly don't remember what handle(s) he used and he said he did this because he wants me to move on and stop playing the game, so he said he won't help me get back on it.

Like I said, I don't have any proof, but I can tell you a few things to give you some context:
- I was in the middle of a training exercise at Derra between the Jedi Order (including the Jedi Academy) and the Death Watch when this happened, which got suddenly suspended because of this.

- I was in a ship (a Quasar) in the planet's surface, so that shows I didn't fly into a sun. I understand flying into a sun by accident, but dropping it by accident is impossible, since it requests your password to confirm.

- I wouldn't have dropped my character suddenly like this. I've been playing for more than 5 years, I owned a considerable amount of assets and I was the leader of the Jedi Academy (and like I mentioned before I didn't have a 2IC assigned, so the faction's leadership went randomly to one of the newest members in the faction, a rookie SWC player). As you can imagine I have made many friends in SWC over so many years, if I was to drop my character I would've left my ships, facilities, items, etc, to one of them before doing it. And I definitely would have assigned a reliable player as 2IC to take the faction's leadership when I was gone. Or if I had ill will against my faction (which I don't), I suppose I would've looted it, published derogatory GNS or something that caused some kind of damage. Instead when I logged in and saw what happened I immediately sent a DM to Leodous Kyron, the owner, to come and replace the random guy who was left as leader (you can check if you want).

Dropping suddenly like that makes no sense to me really.

---
I realize I'm not giving any proof and I really can't offer you any. And like I said, I understand your doubts and your hesitation to do anything about this.

I also know that despite what my cousin did, this is partly my responsibility for failing to keep my password to myself, so I am even prepared to take a loss because of that, that's why I thought about the possibility of maybe starting over with a new player and asking you to help me by making me FS again. Even if I have to lose my character and my assets, the fact that I was FS is the most important thing for me. I would be really thankful if you could save that for me at least.
The truth is I am prepared to take a loss due to my responsibility on this, but I don't really feel like playing a non-FS character after so many years. If you can't help me I was thinking I would recreate as many times as it takes to get a new FS character, even if it takes me months or years...

I think this is all I can say to try and convince you. I know what I'm asking and even my alternate request of making my new character FS, are both against SWC policies, but I really hope you can help me out somehow. Like I said, I understand your doubts, so if you can't revive my character but accept my alternate proposal I will be very hankful for your help and even if you can't help me at all, I will understand.

Thank you for your time.

Regards,
Hyde Solari
Mon, Oct 6 2014 19:21 - Ghost
Unfortunately, we have our own guidelines on how to handle these things.

As part of your end-user agreement (http://www.swcombine.com/technical/disclaimer.php) which you accepted upon creating an account with Star Wars Combine, you agreed to take all necessary steps to secure your account from being accessed by a third party. Although regrettable, the SWC Administration cannot reverse legitimate in-game actions undertaken by an account, and there is no means with which we can verify who the actions were taken by. We hope in future you take appropriate steps to ensure your account's security in future.

It is physically impossible with game mechanics to "undo" the action

As far as being fs, I feel it unfair to the masses to simply allow you to continue that. You may get lucky upon respawn, but this is out of our hands. Recreating over and over again to become fs is also illegal and can get you banned. :-/

I hate to be the barer or bad news, but I am sorry about your situation.
Tue, Oct 7 2014 0:09
Hi again,

Actually, since you mention the what the user agreement, I should mention that what it says in this regard is that "You may not disclose your password to any third party". Now if we consider that disclosing means making (something) known to the public, I could argue that in no way I have made my login information known to the public, on the contrary, I was violated in my privacy and my login information fell into the third party's possession as a consequence of this violation of my privacy and my property, thus in no way these actions were legitimate. The fact that I can't prove the events I described doesn't change the illegitimate nature of the actions taken through my account and the fact that I can't offer a definitive proof shouldn't stop you from taking my word, especially in a good will enviroment as a game like SWC should be.
I'm a lawyer in real life, so I could argue this all day, I could give you an endless list of reasons to sustain my position in legal terms based on the user agreement, but I'm not going to do that, mostly because I have no intention to get into that kind of argument over this, I prefer to request a sympathetic response from the admins toward this unfortunate situation.

To be honest with you, my hopes for getting this whole thing undone were very low, but I did hope you might help out a long time player (and a widely regarded and respected player in the SWC community if I may say so myself) in an unfortunate situation like this. With that in sight is that I made my alternate proposal of saving at the very least my FS status, which is the most important issue for me and would cause no harm or even affect in the slightest any other player or to the game mechanics and it wouldn't even require undoing what happened, restoring my property or anything like that, it would simply require a nice gesture from the admins towards a player who has been commited and faithful to the game for more than 5 years and counting. This is all I expected and I'm very sorry to realize that I expected too much.

Finally, I must say that I'm very surprised to hear you say that recreating over and over to become FS would be against the rules. I was obviously going to respect the waiting periods, respecting the rules on that matter, so I honestly don't see what's objectionable about that. Even more, players recreate constantly for all kinds of reasons, some because they are unsatisfied with the skills they chose, others because they want to switch race and mostly because they want to get a chance to become FS. I know tons of people who have recreated after reaching levels 1, 6, 11, 16, etc. with the sole purpose and expectation of having a chance to become FS with a new character. In my experience this is one of the main reasons why players recreate in SWC, even at cost of their experience, their property and their identity. Some do it once and get lucky, others do it many times, but I don't see the difference and I honestly can't find something questionable about this behavior.

Like I mentioned before, I had the luck to become FS with my first character, I have spent most of my career in FS communities, reaching the level of Jedi Master, which is an honor to me, training and testing many FS characters over the years and even reaching some of the highest leadership positions as a Jedi in my faction, the Jedi Order. This has been my life in SWC and without my FS status I am literally losing the core and the essence of it all. This is why I honestly have no intention of playing a non-FS character after all these years and if the admins position regarding the unfortunate situation that caused me to lose this together with the admins interpretation of the rules end up having me banned if I use the only resource I have left, thus preventing me from any way to continue playing a FS character, I'm afraid I will end up leaving the game altogether. I'm very saddened to say this, and I would hate to leave SWC. I sill feel I can give a lot to the SWC community as I have done for more than 5 years, but this is how I feel.

Once again, I appeal to your sympathy and I hope you can help me out somehow or at least show some leniency in consideration to this situation.

Thanks again,
Hyde Solari


Edited By: Hyde Solari on Year 15 Day 312 16:38
That sucks if they won't help out even players who have been here for few years. Especially considering you wouldn't be the first person that they brought back from the dead.


Edited By: Lilith Delcroix on Year 15 Day 312 17:19
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Benedicta Per Gratiam Jou
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--> Lvl 5 FI Operator - Free Service <--

Kyran Caelius

Lilith pretty much hit the nail on the head.


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Raidan Spike

How do you know it requires a password to drop a character?


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Hyde Solari

Raidan, I know it requires a password confirmation because a) it's in the drop character screen, anyone can see it; b) I have been faction leader in many factions for many years and I have helped players recreate many times over the years for different reasons; and c) because my cousin told me exactly what he did. I hope this clears up your doubts on the matter. Let me know if you have any other questions ;)

Thanks for your support Lilith and Kyran, I really appreciate it. Just hearing people like yourselves saying these words makes me feel a lot better.


Raidan Spike

Fair enough. I'm sorry about your predicament, and hope your case will be treated with all fairness and understanding.


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Hyde Solari

Thank you.

I'm very interested in hearing as many opinions as possible, even from those who don't agree with me. The fact that my requests were rejected solely based in a cold (and questionable) interpretation of a clause in the user agreement was disappointing, I hope this thread will at least open the subject to other points of view.


While it seems odd that someone would login to your account and drop your character it's even more odd that someone that's invested five years into the Combine would just accidentally drop his/her character. If it wasn't an accidental sun - which it appears it isn't - I would tend to believe the series of events as put forth by Mr. Solari.

With all of the older players that have bailed since Keir checked out it would be nice if the Admins could help Mr. Solari out in some capacity. I'm not gonna hold my breath but I guess miracles can happen and maybe the Galaxy can avoid losing another long time member. :-/


Edited By: Jasko Faren on Year 15 Day 312 19:40
I just wanted to say a couple of things.

Confirmation:
Yes everything Hyde Solari said was correct about his actions and place in the JO. He was also a major player in our diplomatic efforts. As a result, his loss will harm the Order in the ways he suggests and more.

To the admins - Consider that on the front of this webpage you can keep yourself logged in. So if a person just did a history search they could log in IF they have access to your physical computer. More over many people use add-on or built in password managers that assure one can get to the site just by knowing it and so passwords do not 1) prevent access or 2) assure actions within the site are not do-able. And since the rules are on the right hand side of the screen it is not too very hard to figure out the basics of dropping a character on the site. I am saying all this as one part word of warning and one part fact in this case. It is very possible that it can happen as a prank or because one's spouse or SO has had enough of this "game" and can end your character. To say that a person has to log out and take their computer with them to prevent this or they are in violation of the third party access rule, that is asking way to much and it is the only way possible to do what they suggest the TOS says.

@ Ghost: He has tried to help a few times various people and at least seems nice, professional and effective. I know when he says he thinks the system does not allow for revival that he means well. But so you know, we have seen it happen before. That does not mean it HAS to happen again but it is possible - if remote and causes at least one small issue of trouble in the db when it has been done.

@ revival - No one in the Order expected that it would happen. We ALL have seen it happen but we don't expect anything like this would happen based on one fact in the case - we can't prove Hyde did not press the button. We can show that he was in the middle of a action. We can prove he was making the SWC better. We can prove it would have been counter to everything he was doing up to the day before and we knew if we did not have a camera on the keyboard showing he did not press the button it was a done deal. While we can prove that it is the most insane thing to ever happen to a person we did not think that we would see any other choice then the one that happened here.

Now the other big reason that I am here is to protest the position that re-creating is a violation of any rule. In fact, the reason that the wait period was inacted was to make sure that anyone that wanted to cycle till they got the force had to time out. Let me be clear about this: The admins are the ones that increased the time out between characters to 3 weeks to prevent people from re-creating to be FS without penalty. Well the penalty is a 3 week re-create. There for it is not MORAL to ban someone that chooses to do this anyway. But I ask you all to think, why would you ban someone if they take a year to 6 months recreate and be FS?

If it is a deal breaker for a person let them try with the three week time out in place. I mean think about it. Basic short hand math. A person could check up to 12 times in a year recreating and they may take MONTHS or YEARS to do it but they would stay connected to the SWC. They are still trying to stay in the game. They are not going off to play any one of the dozens of other games available and never coming back. Instead of leaving, they are still trying to be FS & be part of the FS community. They are still here! And if they are changing species randomly (maybe even genders) in this potential attempt - then what is to say WHY they are dropping. Considering you can get a lot father playing the game as non-fs then spending lot of time being fs, I don't see what the issue would even be.

You don't have to try to stop people from being FS. Sure some people want to be Jedi but just like others want to be a X-wing ace, a sexy princess or a devil-may-care Smuggler. It comes with the Star Wars territory. If you can be and make sacrifices to be all those other things then why stand in the way of those willing to make sacrifices to be FS because they want to be in a FS culture or RP. For crying out loud let them try.




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In the end, beauty fades, powers fall but hope survives
The player who was previously resurrected should not have been. It was a mistake made by previous ASims rather than a precedent. All of the other thousands of players who dropped and were killed were not resurrected.

If you don't utilize the log out option, it's not the fault of the administration. You are responsible for your account.

Lastly, this isn't a discussion forum; it's a forum to pose questions to the admins. It seems like you already received your answer via support ticket. If you want to continue to argue it, you need to do so with the ASims directly. Trying to stir up argument on the forums will only harm your case.


Edited By: Syn on Year 15 Day 312 22:38
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