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I am wondering how some players are able to buy assets from the marketplace without having to go through an auction like the rest of us? I didn't see anything in rules about any assets being able to be bought without going through an auction first. I know if something doesn't sell at auction you can then buy it but I'm talking about assets like facilities and cities that def would be bid on somehow certain players were able to acquire them without waiting for the 20+ day auction. Please show me in the rules where this exemption is stated. If there is something missing in the rules please add them for all to see.


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RIP CHESTER
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You mean the NPC Market. I might have an idea. They could have been player sales (you know stolen assets/faction looting ect) and not the usual Asset removal placement. Remember there is an option to sell to the market. JMO


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Recruiter for Black Nebula Engineering.
It shouldn't be possible to buy entities on the market during their auction timer. If as Skeltsco suggested a player sold to the market it might not have an auction timer.


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I recently had a conversation about this and the other party informed me that there is a short window, right after the asset appears on the market, where it's purchasable (allegedly for a few minutes, iirc). Apparently a number of people camp the markets, waiting to quickly snap up these assets for cheap. I pointed out that this is contradictory to the rules, but they said it had been that way for as long as they remembered.

I wonder if that might be considered exploitation of a bug, if it's not intended.


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Christian Hall

It is possible to buy things straight from the market, before the auction timer starts. I'm still not 100% what all is required, but It seems like you just have to see the asset as soon as it appears.


Well this defiantly seems like an exploit to me as players are using the big to their advantage to get all the assets before rest of SWC has a shot. This does explain how bunch of assets from faction like Cloud City when they dissolved never hit the market and how some individuals got a head start acquiring those assets without having to wait for auctions.

So this def needs to be fixed ASAP by not allowing any of these pre auction bids rewarding players using the exploit as it's not mentioned on any rules pages that you had a chance to buy an asset if you happen to be on before auction timer so somehow they figured out the window and used it for personal gain. If it's been known by admins why hasn't the rules been updated or a fix been in place? A message warning players not to exploit big buying assets or they will be returned to market could help while they work out a fix..


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RIP CHESTER
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Xakic Jix

If this is a known bug being exploited .... should the players that are knowingly using a feature outside of the features actual coded purpose be banned?? I for one think so.


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Esu Kyouto

What Chester described sounds like exploiting an unintended game mechanic.
There is nothing in the rules that suggest you can buy market asserts for a short period of time before it goes on auction.
The reason SWC has timers is to give everyone an opportunity to play the game.
If someone knows there is a timer exploit and uses it then at the very least it's a golden rule issue.


Simkin Dragoneel

I was directed to this thread.

First, I would like to say: Yes that is against the rules of the market that was updated on Weekly Report Y13: Days 188 to 199.

The Rules are: "All assets on the market are priced based on the Raw Material cost of the asset. Every bid on an asset must be equal to or greater than the Minimum Bid (2x the RMP of the asset) with 5% of the bid price going to the Owner of the Market.

Credits will not be withdrawn until the end of the Auction. Bids do not have to be higher than or equal to the highest bid made. If the person with the highest bid can not afford the bid when the auction is finished, the next highest bid to be able to afford their bid is selected as the winner.

If no bids are made or no viable winner is able to be selected, the Auction is concluded and the item becomes purchasable at the cost of the Minimum Bid."

When I put this to my tester team to look at, it was found that anyone can buy an entity from market at RMP x 2 if they see the entity within 10-15 min of it going to market. Supposedly it has been like this since the new rules were done and nobody has reported it. It is an exploit though.

I have made a report about it to be fixed, however it is not a major priority atm for the coders. Until this can be looked at, at least all who read this can do what some seem to already know.


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q8scw75
So until it's fixed, anyone who camps at a market has a huge advantage over the rest of the game in regards to the NPC market (where all manner of awesome toys can pop up).

Lovely.


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Simkin Dragoneel

As said, supposedly it has been like this for 2 years.

Lovely that nobody has reported or said anything about it. Either the people that are doing it don't know it is against the rules or do not care.

A little more time of it going on kinda doesn't hold a candle to that.


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q8scw75
If you know of someone who is doing this, you can report them. Perhaps it's possible for the admins to track and punish exploiters now that their attention has been drawn to this issue.


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Xakic Jix

So are we allowed to do it as Sim said, or are we going to get in trouble for doing it like Syn suggest???


Edited By: Xakic Jix on Year 16 Day 34 22:38
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Thali`a N`ightshade

I would think that anyone that reads this thread knows it is an exploit and could be punished later if anyone reported it Xakic.


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Simkin Dragoneel

I have perhaps become jaded with seeing how things have panned out before.

Anyone who has been and is doing it now will simply say they never read this and didn't know it was an exploit.

I don't see anyone getting banned, or if they are it will probably be whined about and overturned.



Edited By: Simkin Dragoneel on Year 16 Day 34 23:09
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q8scw75
Ignorance is never an excuse. It's pretty obvious that it isn't an intended functionality. Multis claim ignorance all the time and still get punished, so I wouldn't worry too much about that. I would expect more along the lines of the trade being undone and an additional penalty imposed rather than a long term ban, though, based on the nature of the issue. Submit a support ticket or let Erek know if anyone is known to be exploiting this. He will decide how to deal with it and he is not known for being the nicest guy to exploiters. :p


Edited By: Syn on Year 16 Day 34 23:36
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Blot Hlidskjalf

It's not correct at all.

It was reported many times.
When the new npc-market went online I personally reportet it to Jesfa and some other admin, even wrote a ticket in the bug base.
The only answer I got was that all works as intended.
The was closed.
Later I reported it again for the same reason to another Asim. Same answer: works all as intended.

Edit 1: Ticketnumber for those able to see: 2482
Ticket was opened 23 Oct 12 06:13

Edit 2: If there is a way to look into older PMs I am sure an Asim will find a conservation with Jesfa addressing this issue and that Jesfas answer was "working as intended".


Edited By: Blot Hlidskjalf on Year 16 Day 35 2:18
Year 16 Day 35 5:25
Deleted Post
Sylvin Macflint
Deleted by Sylvin Macflint. Reason: Integrity matters
Ku`Bakai Roche

I can understand the difficulties in reversing all this for years. It might not be possible and entities could have been sold to other persons in the meantime, so I cna understand the admins position that there will not be retroactive punishments, our small but dedicated force of admins would be hard pressed to track all this down probably.

However I think this is clearly an exploit and any reasonable person would have known it was. If someone had it happen once maybe twice you could mark it up perhaps to accidental exploitation but if they've acquired dozens or hundreds of items this way then clearly they were exploiting, but to divert the manpower to root out all that would probably mean any game progress would ground to a halt.

I think we should push this repair to a higher priority. If combat is going to come out then this will just become more and more exploitable, it needs to be fixed before combat is widespread.


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Esu Kyouto

I asked around on mIRC and apparently there are is a "team" of veteran players that takes shifts camping the market to snatch up anything they can before it goes to auction.
At least one of the "team" is on the SWC development team and has enhanced access to the game.


Fixing would be nice since I think it doesn't fall under 'normal gameplay'.

I've been checking the market ever since Helena's loss since we had a bunch of her slabs on our only planet and of course like to maintain control. With normal sleep cycles included, I never even saw the slabs hit the market!

If individuals or groups work together to snatch everything of value away by spending every second watching the market, well I don't know where the fun in playing is then... (I imagine them sitting in front of the screen clicking refresh every second for hours... or maybe there's a program for that?)

About the rules, I don't know, never been much into them. I figured some things as normal and intended, like RM and trophies / items that I often see going by price, not by auction but surely not with big stuff that can possibly change the fate of a group in swc?


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