Sienar Extractions
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Archives » SWC Marketplace Buying without Auction?
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Ku`Bakai Roche

I know you weren't the only one Darlene, Chester been looking for that stuff too, and I've been keeping my eye out to, very little if anything hit the market, and to find out teams with people in the development and other aspects of the game doing it is concerning.

Perhaps the admins could reverse any such illicit transactions in the last 30 days, and remove the offenders with a temp ban of say 2 weeks each.


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Blot Hlidskjalf

Ku`Bakai Roche, maybe you are unable to read and understand, but it was reported and it was stated that it works as intended.

Why banning people who even asked if they could use these mechanics?
Yes, I asked Jesfa and there was no problem in the past.
And where is the problem when people decide to spend their time at the market?
People at the market can't build anything, hunt for drops nor can they search for hidden systems.

And no, I'm not at the market atm.


Esu Kyouto

Seems rather obvious if its not in the rules and is not an intended game mechanic then knowingly exploiting it is cheating. There is precedent for such events.

"because everyone else was doing it" is not an viable excuse.


Edited By: Esu Kyouto on Year 16 Day 35 6:44
Blot Hlidskjalf

again:
reported it to Jesfa back in the days.
He answered that it is working as intended.

So when an Asim says it is ok and two years later people try a witch hunt, it becomes cheating?

Again, Asims shall look into my DMs. Somewhere there is the conversation with Jesfa.


Ku`Bakai Roche

I'm going by what Simkin is saying here that it's a clear exploit. Any reasonable person would know it was an exploit. Barring evidence to the contrary then there is not much else we can go on. Sorry but I don't know you and your word alone is not evidence. I don't think the game population has ever taken anyone at their words so if you have evidence to the contrary I suggest presenting it.

Why is it a problem because your buying stuff well under market value, and then I have no doubt selling enough of it to make a tremendous profit giving an unfair advantage over others who are playing by the rules.





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Blot Hlidskjalf

Sure, wait a moment.
Just have to review all my conversations of the last years ...
oh ... seems i did not saved every single one.

Why do you think I mentioned this?
Again, Asims shall look into my DMs. Somewhere there is the conversation with Jesfa. 


Esu Kyouto

"So when an Asim says it is ok and two years later people try a witch hunt, it becomes cheating?"

Witch hunt? I take it you have been exploiting this unintended game mechanic for years and are now getting nervous?

I for one and most of the other veterans I spoke to had no idea this problem existed until NOW. That is because ITS NOT IN THE RULES.


Blot Hlidskjalf

Nope, not nervous.
Just annoyed of people calling for bans :)

A lot of people know it's possible and even Asims know due to bug reports, support tickets and DMs.

But I stop defending it here now.
I realize I just feed the trolls and the witch hunters ;)


Kendall Holm

Bug 2482 has nothing with that window. Just that you could buy from the market. Which is the design of the market if the timer runs out and no one bids. That is why we closed it is because you were describing an actual feature of the market.


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Blot Hlidskjalf

Nope, it wasn't about outrunning auctions. I opened the report, because a member was able to buy 3 ships directly from the market. the ships appeared without timer. I even provided a screenshot from another ship which wasn't at the market before. please don't tell me there would be a 4 ships u/u/u and noone bid on them.

At the same time i wrote with Jesfa

Since he answered to me I never got back to this bug report.
Noone cared about the bug report either.
my last comment was at:
03 Nov 12 12:17
the answer cames at:
25 Nov 13 18:02

a year later! there it was decided that it was an outrunning auction.

However, pls check the logfiles of my PMs. There are the answers from Jesfa.

The bug was reported. So please don't tell people noone reported.
I also found a chatlog from mirc where I reported it at mirc.
answer there was it will be taken care of it.


Selatos


At least one of the "team" is on the SWC development team and has enhanced access to the game.

- Esu Kyouto
 


Don't post this kind of garbage. Either you know a name and would like to report someone or you don't. You're posting in a thread instead of submitting a support ticket, so it sounds like you're just trying to create uproar, but you don't actually know what kind of "enhanced access" development team members have (or don't have, as the case may be), or possibly don't know who is even on the development team.

Blot is definitely on point in describing this as a witch hunt currently.

Anyway, as for the topic at hand... Sims mentioned this to me last night and I didn't think it was a particularly big deal because people have camped the market in this game as long as it has existed, especially the previous NPC market which restocked at specific, well known times each day. But it seems there is a lot of confusion and disagreement over the correct behavior, and some people thought it was against the rules and others didn't... Regardless it'll be fixed for this weekend.

We're going to reverse the market transactions that were made during the 10-20 minute buyout period as far back as we have event logs for, and then relist them as auctions of the standard length. Nobody is going to be punished for camping the market unless they were breaking other rules at the same time (specifically, scripting) because it has been a long standing situation with no previous guidance suggesting it was against the rules.


"I asked around on mIRC and apparently there are is a "team" of veteran players that takes shifts camping the market to snatch up anything they can before it goes to auction.
At least one of the "team" is on the SWC development team and has enhanced access to the game." - Esu Kyouto, Year 16 Day 34 6:00

well i read that and that pretty much lets me know that those of us with the mud and dirt on our hands and the Duracrete under our fingernails, twiches from constant hyper travel, and sustaining off of cold Bantha gut soup to make sure our employees and trusted teammates get paid that we might as well take a flying leap outta our escape pods. i dont think ive even interacted with anyone on the development team IC or OOC...so i can pretty much guess how much they care about my opinion or how their profit affects me, lol....especially if one of them is gaining a huge advantage in quality of life and galactic "stature" - which is all it boils down to really because its all just stuff when you think about it.

and to think that there are some of those like Blot could even look at this and be ok with it....Damij shakes his head in wonder...(and yeah yeah "works as intended", whatever. ive not had the pleasure of meeting you either but my stance is to always assume a sentient is intelligent until they give me reason to believe otherwise. so for now im calling you intelligent so...come on dude, really?) man i dont even know why that should surprise any of us either. ego, arrogance, greed, and laziness are well know traits in our little galaxy here.

so hell yes its exploitation and should be fixed. but even if it doesnt im still really enjoying the hard work my team and i put into building everything that we have. im even more proud of our efforts every time i see some cryptic little cheat that we never knew about being used to line the pockets of the softer side of our world. congrats to those select few on your "discovery" but until exploiters can take away what we i work for then i will continue to enjoy this game by making money the old fashioned way...earning it.


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It is common that in the final moments are when beings show you who they really are.
Im glad this was brought to light. I had wondered why nothing from Cloud City was appearing, Id been intentionally watching for one item. The fact that people actually knew about the exploit is somewhat disheartening. But its good to know it is finally on the radar for being fixed.


Simkin Dragoneel

I totally agree with Sel's move.

The Q&A team is here to find and try to get resolved any bugs or exploits. If anyone notices something that doesn't appear to mesh with the rules or the spirit of the rules, please let us know with a bug report or you can ask me about a rule.

When I or hopefully most of you look at the current market rules I get the spirit that it was made that way to allow everyone to have a "fair" chance at buying something, and also from a game perspective allow for a massive credit sink to get rid of the excess TP credits still in the game.

Let's all not let an exploit run another couple years, but if we don't know about a problem we can't fix it.


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Year 16 Day 35 11:32
Deleted Post
Xakic Jix
Deleted by Xakic Jix. Reason: Didnt read All post....before I posted.
Ku`Bakai Roche

I'm glad to see admins moving quick on this to resolve it. I think the stated actions to be taken to be satisfactory and am glad that this came to light thanks to Chester and others.

(It also seems all of us were waiting for some of Cloud City's possessions, so the bidding might be fierce, hopefully we all didn't want the same things :) )


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We will be reversing all purchases made in this manner in the past 60 days, refunding money spent, and relisting the entities as proper three week auctions. 


from sim news.

That sounds wonderful but won't that be wreaking havoc on players who may have bought said items later in the normal way via CPM etc after re-sale not knowing how they were obtained in the first place? They will undoubtedly have paid a good amount of credits on it, will they be left with nothing now? No item no credits? Seems a bit harsh.


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Ku`Bakai Roche

I think that's why they limited it to 60 days. I know some were wanting the market reversed for the full 2 years, but that is probably impractical given the scope of how many times something may have changed hands.


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Simkin Dragoneel

The person who paid like 600k for an entity, then sold it to someone else for 60 mill should have the money to reimburse their customers. They were making their fortune off an exploit whether they knew or not, they will have to make it right.


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Cait Catra

I wonder, if a scenario like that comes up, would the seller then be listed as a scammer for selling illegally purchased goods that were later revoked? Could they avoid this possibility by refunding the credits to the buyer? *Should* they be able to avoid it at all?


Sylvin Macflint

“Anyway, as for the topic at hand... Sims mentioned this to me last night and I didn't think it was a particularly big deal because people have camped the market in this game as long as it has existed, especially the previous NPC market which restocked at specific, well known times each day. But it seems there is a lot of confusion and disagreement over the correct behavior, and some people thought it was against the rules and others didn't... Regardless it'll be fixed for this weekend.

We're going to reverse the market transactions that were made during the 10-20 minute buyout period as far back as we have event logs for, and then relist them as auctions of the standard length. Nobody is going to be punished for camping the market unless they were breaking other rules at the same time (specifically, scripting) because it has been a long standing situation with no previous guidance suggesting it was against the rules.” Selatos

Then in fact you are punishing people?


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