Tamra Royal Excavations
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19

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326

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Year 18 Day 45 22:59
Cost = Yield * RM price + (Yield * RM price * Tax) + (0.2 * Yield * RM price * Crime) + 0.375 * NPC_Cost * MAX(0, NPC-1) / (Management+1)
Yield: Extracted quantity of material
RM price: Raw material price from the above table
Planet Tax: As stated in the Planetary Economy rules a value between 0 and 1
Planet Crime: As stated in the Planetary Economy rules a value between 0 and 1
NPC: Amount of NPC working at Mine, the first NPC is free of charge
NPC_Cost: The price to employ an NPC, currently 50,000credits
Management: This is the Mine's operator Management skill

- Mining RM Cost Equation
 


Link to Rule Page

I use these equations regularly, but recently realized I had a few questions about them.

  1. Does it use the operator at the time of yield or when the mining operation is started?
  • Using 100% morale, 2% crime, 5% tax for 24k units of meleenium:
    • Management 0: 3,521,742 (147cr/unit)
      Management 1: 2,440,392 (102cr/unit)
      Management 2: 2,065,392 (86cr/unit)
      Management 3: 1,877,892 (78cr/unit)
      Management 4: 1,765,392 (74cr/unit)
      Management 5: 1,690,392 (70cr/unit)

    Seems like using anything less than an operator with 5 in management is a huge waste of credits. Is it really that drastic of a difference between Management 0 and 5?


Where does the free NPC come into play?
  • Where do you subtract it? NPC, NPC_Cost, or both?
    For 12 NPCs, is NPC =
MAX(0,11-1) and NPC_Cost = 12*50000,
or is NPC = MAX(0,12-1) and NPC_Cost = 11*50000,
or is NPC = MAX(0,11-1) and NPC_Cost = 11*50000?

Is it intended that a smaller yield will cost more per unit than a larger yield?
  • Using the same planetary stats as above,
    Yield of 10k units = 92cr/unit
    Yield of 20k units = 74cr/unit

    =10000*52+(10000*52*0.05)+(0.2*10000*52*0.02)+0.375*(12*50000)*MAX(0,11-1)/(5+1)

    =20000*52+(20000*52*0.05)+(0.2*20000*52*0.02)+0.375*(12*50000)*MAX(0,11-1)/(5+1)


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Year 18 Day 46 8:35
I'll have to look at the code for other answers but regarding cost per yield and management skills:

I know we had a problem with cheaters using low yield mines to XP farm. Yields and costs were adjusted to make this impossible, its likely that low yield high cost was one aspect of that. Also, economy of scale and such.

For management, that seems like a pretty normal skill progression curve for SWC.


Year 18 Day 56 8:47
Geoff Jackson

Wouldn't it make sense for a less yield to have a higher cost per unit? For example, if you hire a dozen people and they only do 40% of the workload they still get paid their salary. If they do 80%, again you still pay them the same total.

The unit cost is lower, but the cost to do the work is the same regardless of the outcome.


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Geoff Jackson
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Year 18 Day 56 13:48
It does make sense, considering bulk orders/purchases always cost less... but if that were the case, the cost for a weekly yield would be the same regardless of the yield amount since your logic is that the worker salaries would be the same regardless of work output. :P

10k units @ 92cr/unit = 920,000 credits
20k units @ 74cr/unit = 1,480,000 credits

However, I just noticed that one of our meleenium mines set to 9090 units per week is still in the 70's for cost per unit. It does not appear to fit the formula...


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Year 18 Day 56 14:28
Xanxus Drol

I can help with some of these more from expierence then from a factual "this is how it's coded" standpoint. I'm going to be very detailed as well for other potential readers benefit...

For management, you have to keep in mind that just like other tasks where you are directing npcs in a non combat setting that essentialy make you the foreman or job supervisor of the work crew [npcs] your management skill is reflected in the productivity of the task at hand... in construction and production your management skills effects more the time to accomplish the task however it may impact the construction costs as well on some level... I tend to think that if it does effect cost in those settings it is rather minimal.

For production and construction similarly, if the npcs are removed somehow and someone else must manually resume the task the task resumes under the original management skills

IE xanxus has 5 management and starts construction in a buildwar, after the npcs are killed and construction stops someone with 0 management can resume with new npcs and it would maintain a 5 skill level.

For mining I believe this functions in the same way so long as the mines are paused and do not actualy "stop" even though unlike the prior examples of task delegation, when construction and production give the original "starter" xp it seems that the operator of a mine gets the xp regardless of who started the job... or perhaps it factors that in on autoresume and then dishes out the xp to the new operator next run? I never really paid attention to that part as to how the xp is dished out.

Anyway... yes the costs are more for mining with a lower management level which probably also plays into what Geoff said as well in some way... someone with less skill is going to not save you as much expense because they are not as skilled in managing the employees on the job site. Also as Geoff said the lower yield is going to cost more because the concept at play most likely is that your paying the same people, operations costs etc yet they are outputting less materials per yield which by extension makes those materials "cost" more per unit. The main theory in play in all cases of management skills to productivity is that you are using that skill to manage employees (npcs) and therefore your skill level directly correlates to their performance... for mining arguably it could be suggested that a 5 skill has his "people" on point, reducing rp (assumed and imagined) issues on the job site such as making the guys happy about the job and performing at their best.

I always max yield and autoresume. The best solution for cost efficient mining in my opinion is to simply pause mines before they overflow, give lesser management skilled people collecting these mats control room access and open mine to faction crewlist wise... that works for nexcore but that's acceptable to us security wise since nexcore doesn't have super secret secure assets... for other factions that could be a security risk depending on how they are set up

I can't help you with the equations... this is going to sound nuts but in general I don't pay attention to the equations in much detail but instead regard them more as guide to determine the general concept, much of my knowledge has been trial by error research...IE to me it's more fitting rp wise to build slave markets and then recycle them to see the actual stat damage then sit their with a pen and paper and try to figure it out. In this way Xanxus durectly involves himself in the scientific proccess researching techniques for his government.

It's my expierence as a player over thr years that the stated rules don't always reflect the actual system which is not entirely the staffs fault as swc has been coded by so many people it's probably very confusing ... for instance prospecting changed with the server migration accidentally due to database issues in how the new server reads the database "or something like that" so the new technique I have established is to have several 5 level comp ops scan, one will use 10 vehicles, the next 11, and the last one a full squad... the rules and equations to me are a guide to how it is meant to work, unfortunately not always (but usualy) how they work in actuality. You got money, rm and land... be a scientist for Gree :)




Year 18 Day 56 14:35
Xanxus Drol

Also Tomas for the Mel yields you just posted made me think of something else...

Mel on most of my planets.. Zanns planets whatever you wsnt to call it... costs roughly 55cr to 65cr to mine (for players wondering why we sell it for double that understand we have player employees to pay etc) and that reminded me that planet stats also effect productivity... so the variance you are seeing could also largely be effected by the balance of the planets stats for that particular mine.


Year 18 Day 56 14:37
For production and construction similarly, if the npcs are removed somehow and someone else must manually resume the task the task resumes under the original management skills

IE xanxus has 5 management and starts construction in a buildwar, after the npcs are killed and construction stops someone with 0 management can resume with new npcs and it would maintain a 5 skill level.

- Xanxus
 


That was my understanding as well, but I have an associate who swears differently - they are adamant that a higher management player can come and add builders to a facility and it will recalculate the construction speed using the new player's management skill. They stated that they've done this while securing hidden systems, but I recall my own experiments proving otherwise - and the facility construction rules/equations are not clear on this.

I always max yield and autoresume. The best solution for cost efficient mining in my opinion is to simply pause mines before they overflow, give lesser management skilled people collecting these mats control room access and open mine to faction crewlist wise... that works for nexcore but that's acceptable to us security wise since nexcore doesn't have super secret secure assets... for other factions that could be a security risk depending on how they are set up.

- Xanxus
 


I usually do this as well, but our meleenium mines become extremely tiresome having to be emptied every week. I prefer to set them at 9090 units (1 BFF-1 load) so that they can be emptied, at exactly two bulk loads, every two weeks - also gives them 1 week leeway for being emptied prior to pausing becoming necessary. But we have healthy meleenium stockpiles and our mining is simply replenishing those, so we aren't waiting on those deposits to be mined. No rush!


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