::Forum - Which rule did I break?

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Year 8 Day 91 16:35	Which rule did I break?
Hal Breden	No, Paparrin, I'm asking for them to explain exactly what rule was broken. There have been two COMPLETELY DIFFERENT reasons given for the ban. One of them does not fit the rules that are on the site. The other one, while more reasonable, is enigmatic on the actual portion of it that caused the ban. That doesn't mean that the ban is not necessarily justified, but just that there has been no explanation given that justifies it. The situation is that whichever answer we get - whichever reason is correct - it causes more questions and problems. If it's a Spying Rules violation, then there are many others who have done the same thing that need to be banned. If it's a Golden Rule violation, then we have an Admin who doesn't understand the rules but is banning people. This isn't about Admin being incompetant, or biased, or the ban being invalid. It's about getting a clear answer as to WHY the ban was valid, and why no Admin has - or apparently CAN (or is it WILL?) - give us that answer. When you make a decision, you should be able to justify it. A decision has been made - and in the case of a ban, I feel that's a fairly serious decision that affects the game as a whole - and it has not been justified. Without the justification - without a good reason - there should not be a ban. ____________ "May the Grace of Ara go with you, and His Vengeance be wrought upon your enemies." Only fools and children dream of heroes.

Year 8 Day 91 22:56	Which rule did I break?
Paparrin	Rav broke the golden rule while manouvering (tho i'd say 'playing with fire') in the spying rules realm, hence it could be agued that he broke both, one, or the other. What I am reading is one admin said 'he broke the golden rule because he misintepreted the spying rules' and another one said 'he broke the spying rules because he did not abide to the golden rule'. Which is the same to me, quite simple if you look at it. Do we need new rules? maybe, but that was that for me because if i am not mistaken PDJ sent the information about the case, and Rav is not disputing PDJs 'side of the story' as false or wrong, that says the 'evidence' is trustworthy, thats enough to stop the controversy if you ask me. Which rule did you break? unless PDJ is lying, it doesnt matter, spying or golden rule, your pick. ____________ Combat please? damit... damn it to hell !!!!!!!! Orphaea Imperium: Looter.

Year 8 Day 91 23:52	Which rule did I break?
Hal Breden	“'he broke the golden rule because he misintepreted the spying rules' and another one said 'he broke the spying rules because he did not abide to the golden rule'. ” Not at all. Dreighton said he broke the spying rules (by interpretation, but still the spying rules). Veynom said he broke the golden rule by planning it all without a character. OOC planning without a character has nothing to do with the spying rules. Infiltration according to the spying rules has nothing to do with the golden rule. There are two completely different reasons being given. I simply want to know which is correct. “Which rule did you break? unless PDJ is lying, it doesnt matter, spying or golden rule, your pick. ” I'm not the one that has to pick. Nor are you. Nor is Rav. Nor is PDJ. The Admin have supposedly ALREADY picked, and SHOULD be able to give a full and unambiguous answer as to why the ban was handed out. The fact that you - in support of the Admin - can't say which it's supposed to be means that obviously it's NOT clear, and it's not just that I'm being argumentative for the sake of it. I trust Veynom. I believe the answers he gives, and expect him to be straight with his answers. If he would answer the questions I am posting, I wouldn't doubt the validity of those answers. However, what has been said here contradicts what has been said eslewhere, and requires clarifying. Without that clarification, the ban is not supported. If Veynom cannot give that clarification, then chances are he's simply backing up the other Admin involved, whose judgement and word I do not trust without hesitation as I do Veynom's. ____________ "May the Grace of Ara go with you, and His Vengeance be wrought upon your enemies." Only fools and children dream of heroes.

Year 8 Day 92 4:17	Which rule did I break?
Veynom	He broke too then. I said that PERSONALLY I consider the golden rule violation as most important and that alone had my approval for a ban. So that does not make 2 contradicting reasons to ban Rav but rather 2 adding reasons. Happy ? Let's move on now. ____________ Sim Master Veynom * This post is written on 100% recyclable electrons. *

Year 8 Day 92 8:18	Which rule did I break?
Squall Chitose	Veynom, respectfully, if you consider it such a rules Violation, why has it not been punished in the past. The thing that bothers me is not that Rav was punished, its that he was punished disproportionately. When force users were violating the golden rule by using the old firefox exploit, they weren't banned. They just had some XP and FP taken away...good punishment....but Rav "breaks" this rule, and he's banned indefinately. Horsecrap, Vey. And another point, it bothers me that this is only an issue when PDJ, one of your old Convention buddies, is involved. It seems like you're more interested in preserving the good ole boy's system than enforcing the rules. I'm not saying that is the case, but we worthless peons can only go on perception. And it also seems that if Keir wasn't involved, this whole thing wouldn't have been an issue. ____________ Hello, Mirror - so glad to see you my friend, it's been a while Searching, Fearless - where do I begin to heal this wound of self-denial Face yourself man!

Year 8 Day 92 9:46	Which rule did I break?
Guest/Visitor	deleted by request of poster. Edited By: Ranma on Year 8 Day 92 12:29

Year 8 Day 92 9:47	Which rule did I break?
Guest/Visitor	deleted by request of poster. Edited By: Ranma on Year 8 Day 92 12:29

Year 8 Day 92 9:47	Which rule did I break?
Oilios Katastrefor	not yet veynom. We need clarification, and a simple yes/no answer will do. "Is it illegal to infiltrate a faction for the purpose of a) Harmining the faction b) using the (a/e) privlages of the faction to harm others (allies, neutrals etc)"

Year 8 Day 92 10:22	Which rule did I break?
Hal Breden	In addition to Oilios' question, I'd like to ask "how much OOC planning is too much?" ____________ "May the Grace of Ara go with you, and His Vengeance be wrought upon your enemies." Only fools and children dream of heroes.

Year 8 Day 92 10:53	Which rule did I break?
Wilhelm von Ismay	"I join Eidola, i am in Eidola for another week or so. While i am in Eidola, Keir and I look at factions to hit We consider Raptor Pirates I join Raptor Pirates and complete my mission" Sounds like In Character planning, not Out Of Character. ____________ Patriarch of House Ismay
Year 8 Day 92 13:51	Which rule did I break?
Silas Haderach	“Sounds like In Character planning, not Out Of Character. ” It seems to me like the real issue is whether or not you can do IC planning while your character has not yet been created. Now, as has already been mentioned, your character has been around for years by the time you create, logically. And as we know, characters are created for specific reasons all the time. If you can plan IC without your character being created, then Rav planned IC. After all, we scarcely act IC when doing IC actions, not on IRC, not in most DM's, not in logical processes. I mean, we create IC backstory's to keep OOC contacts, we treat each other based on OOC facts (see Imazushi), and we can't do anything to prevent that. So we decide that such actions are IC, because they are being done by our Characters, even if our role-playing ability is perhaps lacking a bit. And thats fine. However, if the decision is that you can do no IC planning without a character created, we need to set that statement clearly. It means characters can have done nothing of note in their past biographies, and have no connections, that there should be no contacting of people without characters, and that there should be no planning skills for known needs or requirements of a faction. I do apologize for stretching on what I know must be a tiring petition, but I just want a clear decision on what I think will be the important precedent of this ban in the future.

Year 8 Day 93 17:46	Which rule did I break?
Guest/Visitor	To clear somethings up, I had a character, Rav Isaar, before i even considered doing anything to the Raptor Pirates. To prove you all you need to do is look at the database, i did not join Raptor Pirates right when i respawned.

Year 8 Day 94 4:20	Which rule did I break?
Riax Tardes	Technically, ALL planning is done by our OOC brain. We can only discuss if the planning is or not consistent with the IC course of life.

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