Have the prospecting rules been changed within the past 2 years to allow prospecting on the same tile repeatedly?
It used to be (maybe still is) that if you scanned you werent allowed to do it again. You had to change the equation somehow. Use 1 less vehicle or get someone else with a different CompOps skill.
Has that changed? It makes zero realistic sense for that to be the case. Why would it be physically impossible to detect a deposit with fewer sensors but not with the same amount as half a day ago?
Either way the current rules dont reflect any of this
Indeed, you could always prospect as many times as you wanted. The chance of a deposit is fixed, its not decided each time you prospect. What they would of meant is that if you prospected with FKs and you didn't find anything, you could try going over with more (if you didn't use a full squad), do it with a higher comp ops guy, or try with more sensors (ie groundhogs).
Arch as has been said above increasing the amount of sensors and the comp ops skill of the prospector may increase your chance of finding a deposit.
I take this to mean that each tile has a predetermined yes/no flag either a tile has a deposit or doesn't, so if you use a comp ops 5 with 12 hogs and don't find a deposit there's no point in re-prospecting as you never will find one.......BUT:
“Each time you extract Y tons of material from a mine, its size is diminished by Y. When the size reaches 0, the mine is empty (see below Mining: Moving On (Mine Depletion) for effects). However each week there is a chance of discovering a new pocket of material at the deposit, the chance is calculated below:
- Mining Rules Page ”
The above seems to say that once a tile you found a deposit on has been exhausted it will have a re-roll of the yes/no deposit flag each and every week so these tiles you can keep prospecting until you find another deposit.
Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.
Edited By: Borr Fedick on Year 11 Day 167 3:37 ____________
“ The chance of a deposit is fixed, its not decided each time you prospect.
- Ellias ”
What's always been unclear to me is that if you prospect and fail to find a deposit, does that mean if you try again (with exactly the same sensors and skills) you get another chance of finding a deposit (with the same chance as previously, i.e. the chance of a deposit is fixed)?
Or are you forever blocked off from a success (if using the same sensors and skills? i.e. the chance is not fixed, and becomes 0% for a re-prospect.)
The former seems more simple and easier to code. The latter is more complicated and requires the database to record all failed prospect attempts.
For example, if I tried for a hole-in-one on the first tee of a golf course, and failed, would I never be able to hit a hole-in-one on that tee if I never improved my skills or never got a better set of club (because the hole was physically blocked off, i.e. 0% chance)?
Or if I tried again, with the same skills and same set of club, would I still have a (small) chance of hitting a hole-in-one (i.e. chance of a hole-in-one is fixed)?
Edited By: Kuro Neko on Year 11 Day 167 13:14 ____________
There is no god but Ara... All will walk his path... The Faithful of Ara <--- (Warning: music link)
Nope, every single terrain tile has a set chance of what material it is and what size. It then has a set value that you must beat with your comp ops and sensors in the equation. If you beat it, you see the deposit, otherwise nada. Once a mine collapses and the terrain changes then a new deposit will be worked out with a new value to beat.
Indeed. Its also likely that the other 'empty' terrains do have a deposit but are inaccessible with the number of sensors available in the game. I don't know exactly about that, but if that is the case then come R&D, getting even more sensors put onto a vehicle etc may allow you to access more deposits. But I wouldn't hold out hope for that, depending on how its setup.
Or maybe, if the '3rd layer' gets introduced, allow underground or even opencast mining operations (start out exploring for materials, when the mine runs dry or is empty to start with, the hole has already been started to build a sub-city)
I've been redirected to this thread and it's probably a good place to post my ... experiences with prospecting.
First, though, let's see if I got all this correctly.
Considering a given planet square. Let's say it's a Cave.
1. At some point prior to prospecting (probably during creation, but it hardly matters) it is determined whether this square has a deposit. This is done using the "Terrain Probability" given in the rules. Since it's 10% for caves, about 10% of all caves do have a deposit in this game.
“The chance of a deposit is fixed, its not decided each time you prospect.”
and Tey's neat height bar example, I figure that there is also a fixed predetermined chance of finding this deposit. (Where "chance" is the wrong word really, it's more like a "(prospecting) threshold".)
As this is in no way indicated in the rules, how is this threshold determined?
[Side note: Interesting implication of the above.
* Fixed amount of squares in the game, with fixed predetermined deposits
=> fixed amount of deposits in the game.
* A deposit will run out eventually and might be replaced by a new one or NOT
=> amount of deposits in the game will diminish over time.
* Unless new deposits are "spawned" by admins, the Combine will eventually run out of mats at some point.
2. Now, getting to Prospecting.
According to the rules section the chance of finding a deposit is
Chance of finding = ( 1 + Total Sensors(Comp Op/30+0.05) ) * Terrain Prob.
If I got it all correct, when you prospect this value is compared to the predetermined "prospecting threshold" and if it's higher, you have found the deposit. If it's lower you didn't and no subsequent attempt can turn it up, unless you increase skill or sensors, thereby increasing the "chance of finding". (Again it seems that "chance" should be renamed to something like "(prospecting) strength", since it's not a chance/probability.)
Now, is this correct? If so, the rules should be reworded since they give the entirely wrong impression how prospecting works. This would be due to the order and structure (for instance, "7/ determining type of deposit" right between "6/ finding a deposit" and "8/ building a mine", clearly indicating a direct linear connection to the reader that's just not there.), as well as the wording and omitting of certain facts (like the existence of a "(prospecting) threshold").
Additionally, and finally, I have two observations of my own to state which would be perfectly in line with the rules as written in the mining section, but not with the rules as stated in this thread. So, there probably is either a bug or a misunderstanding.
1. Here is an excerpt of my personal general events.
“ 164 Year 11 Day 157, 9:31 You gained 150 XP with the following message : You have discovered a deposit of quantum.
165 Year 11 Day 157, 9:31 You have found quantum on planet xxx at (3, 0) of size 59,670 Units.
166 Year 11 Day 156, 23:14 You have started prospecting on planet xxx at (3, 0).
167 Year 11 Day 156, 22:31 You gained 50 XP with the following message : You Completed Prospect Survey Of Area. Nothing Found
168 Year 11 Day 156, 22:31 You have completed scans on planet xxx at (3, 0). You found No Deposits.
169 Year 11 Day 156, 12:21 You have started prospecting on planet xxx at (3, 0).”
You will notice that I found no deposit on a prospecting run, but did find a deposit running the exact same scan again. Yes, I didn't level, don't have more skill points and still just a single FK-7. All was exactly as the first time, I didn't even move. I didn't realize it at the time, but according to previous statements in this thread, this must be a bug. (Confirmation?)
However, according to how the rules are actually written and taking the "chance of finding a deposit" as a real chance, it could indeed happen to not hit a 23.8% chance on a scan, but do hit it on a subsequent attempt.
2. I found 17 deposits on 19 squares on my planet, with a single (1!) FK-7 and a CompOps skills of 2.
If the above statements of having predetermined deposits on all squares is true, and the "Terrain probability" averages roughly 10% on my planet. The chance of having 17 deposits on 19 squares at a 10% chance is really low. [edit: removed faulty calculation, will update tomorrow].
Additionally, all deposits would have to have a "prospecting threshold" of below 23.8 (CompOp: 2, Sensors: 10), making it even less probable.
I'm aware of the Law of Large Numbers and the fact that just because it's improbable doesn't mean it's bugged, but this is a really low chance and seeing that there might already be a bug it might be worth looking into.
Phew, lots of stuff. Last, but not least, I'm not complaining or trying to hit on the people writing the rules. If anything sounds like that, I apologize.
I'm just trying to figure out how stuff works and to help to improve the game in what little way I can (and if it's just the rules section :D ).