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Archives » Trading without a character = ban?
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Jack Rilly has been banned for 30 days and had all his CPs (less than a thousand) removed for making multiple trade deals while dead. This is against the Golden Rule, and will be punished.

Now I am no fan of Jack Rilly, in fact he robbed Eidola fo 6mil, and it was Eidola behind his death...so definitely no lack of IC/OOC seperation here...

But it seems to me we're getting a little ban-happy, six years ago I very publicly made deals, arranged transport and set up murders with Teniel Djo before the character was even created. Admins knew about it, the players knew about it, even the dreaded ASims knew about it. But since my character is not zero years old when she spawns on Anzata, surely she is alive a week before I'm able to start moving her around properly - therefore I struggle to think of any reason she can't trade.

Now apparently we've BANNED a player, and removed his CPs, for doing the exact same thing. There's nothing in the rules that says he can't, and historical precedent supports his right to do so. Many people often arrange deals with people who haven't yet re/created. "If you want to spawn on Tatooine, I'll give you ownership of an X-Tie for a week's work", "Well, whenever your new character spawns, get him to pick up all the newbie ears around him in the civic centre, I'll pay 10k apiece and it'll be some good pocket money", etc.

But unless Rilly was trading the assets of his dead character which he intended to reclaim from friends, then I am really left struggling to understand why he just got banned like this. Could we have a little more transparency on these bans? At the very least, even if we do live under a new tyrannical thumb, it would help us peons know what the current regime does and doesn't consider bannable.

He who rules least, rules best


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TenielDjo.png
Sim Karr

Just because you or others have practiced bad IC/OOC separation doesn't mean it's appropriate to continue to do so.


It depends if he was continuing to trade as Jack, or what was going on.


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"May the Grace of Ara go with you, and His Vengeance be wrought upon your enemies."

Only fools and children dream of heroes.
Gunther Innis Tennor

There is a precedent more current than you actions. A member got banned for what 6 months for orchestrating the capture of members before recreating. Whether or not I agree with that decision there is a strong foundation for Jack's ban.


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Robotic Japanese Toilet: I give you...happy poopy time.
Fry: Sorry, you know too much.
Year 11 Day 173 10:03
Per Sim, nice slur, but it's not bad IC/OOC seperation at all. All it separates is your "character" from "the game engine" - not the actual game itself. Another point, while the game has moved from a "player-run game" to a "ASim-run game", it has also moved from a "roleplaying simulation" to a "narrowly-defined click and point game". Even today, I still have several characters in the game - all mine. In fact, one of my characters has more forum posts (on faction forums, not SWC) than Teniel does - and has posted GNS posts (through info factions) frequently, etc. That's not "bad IC/OOC seperation", it's called working within the rules of the game engine to roleplay to the maximum potential.

Per Others, It should be in the rules, if it's actually illegal. And I agree with Hal that it depends whether he was actin as Jack or his new character, although I'd argue just using the name "Keir" or "Jack" on IRC doesn't mean you're trading as that character. If he was negotiating a better home for Jack's Carrack, it's bad roleplaying, if he was negotiating material for his new character, I see zero problem with it. Neither way do I see evidence for a ban.


Edited By: Teniel Djo on Year 11 Day 173 10:08
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TenielDjo.png
Year 11 Day 173 10:26
Sim Karr

Look, I'm not totally understanding what you mean by "I still have several characters in the game - all mine." But to me that just sounds like you've found some sort of loop hole, exploitable because it's not set out in big bold letters in the rules, when really you're missing the whole point. It's the spirit and intention of the rules, namely the golden rule. It's called playing fair and with self restraint.

I know the reason and cirumstances Jack was banned and they are well deserved and not what you are thinking. However, I'll give Ellias some respect and put and end to this speculation by letting him be the one to explain it since he was the man that did the banning.


Year 11 Day 173 10:32
My point being that the "spirit of the rules" seems to be entirely discretionary on which ASim is in power at a certain time - so it's not about the spirit of the rules in the sense we talk about the spirit of the law, it's more like saying "any time a judge thinks you've done something nasty, he can lock you up". So some judges might consider homosexuality a crime, others might consider spanking your children a crime, others might consider playing your music too loud while in the car a crime...there is a reason we have rules.


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TenielDjo.png
Year 11 Day 173 10:35
Could we have a little more transparency on these bans? 


Hahahahahahahahaha!

Anyway, I agree with Hal. Your character may be alive for several weeks before you actually create it, but it's dead the moment you die. Continuing to trade and take advantage of that situation is an egregious IC/OOC violation and should be severely punished, if not indeed bannable.


Year 11 Day 173 11:14
Sim Karr

Well the one thing that is readily transparent is that Teniel has a problem with the game administration. :P


Year 11 Day 173 11:19
Gunther Innis Tennor

And you just noticed?


____________

Robotic Japanese Toilet: I give you...happy poopy time.
Fry: Sorry, you know too much.
Year 11 Day 173 11:31
To clear it up, i did not plan on giving the C-Wing to anyone. I didn't break the IC/OCC crap because i was RPing as my ghost therefore enabling me to speak. I even had Jacks_Ghost as my irc name. It was the person stupidity that they sent over credits.


Year 11 Day 173 11:38
Sim Karr

[10:14:27] Not_Jacks_Ghost_at_all> FS: C-Wing 1.3mil
[10:16:02] Anax> 1 mil
[10:20:20] Trax> Jack are you being obnoxious again?
[10:20:28] Anax> ?
[10:20:33] Not_Jacks_Ghost_at_all> no, i just scammed XD
[10:20:38] Trax> trying to sell someting even though you are dead just to have someone waste 1.3 million?
[10:20:44] Not_Jacks_Ghost_at_all> yep
[10:20:47] Not_Jacks_Ghost_at_all> so fun
[10:20:50] Not_Jacks_Ghost_at_all> and it worked
[10:20:50] Trax> Do you need to be banned?
[10:20:50] Anax> he got me!
[10:20:57] Anax> 1 mil
[10:21:06] Anax> kick hiss ass
[10:21:10] Trax> why?
[10:21:12] * Alley sets mode: +b *!*@SWC-IRC.5AEF47A8FE8AE4.SWC
[10:21:17] * Not_Jacks_Ghost_at_all was kicked by Alley (Total domination.)
[10:21:29] Trax> yeah I don't have such powers
[10:21:32] Anax> You have sent 1,000,000 credits to Jack Rilly with the following message:
[10:21:35] Anax> pff
[10:21:43] Trax> yes, he isn't even a scammer
[10:21:54] @Alley> He smells bad.
[10:21:55] Anax> Will bug the admins:P
[10:21:56] Trax> he is just trying to get people to waste money just to annoy you
[10:24:06] @Alley> He broke the one rule
[10:24:12] @Alley> One Rule: don't be obnoxious
[10:25:24] Trax> I know.
[10:27:50] * ChanServ sets mode: +v Evan_Crawford
[10:36:25] Allaina> FS/FA: C-3, YT-2k w/Goodies, PLY-3k http://market.centrepointstation.com/browse.php?user=c4998
[10:37:08] @Davidus> FS: ardanium, HWK-290
[10:38:25] @Alley> FS: Delta, HWK, PLY-3k - pm for offers
[10:39:56] * ChanServ sets mode: +o Han_Daragon
[10:41:18] * Harry_Sunrider (~haddaniel@SWC-IRC.24BB4A2B41169.SWC) has left #thetraders
[10:43:22] * ChanServ sets mode: +v Evan_Crawford
[10:47:04] * Tyro is now known as Tyro|Work
[10:48:03] Ellias> anyone in here can confirm that Jack Rilly made a deal to sell something in the last 20 minutes or so?
[10:48:11] %Rogue> he did
[10:48:28] Trax> he said he did
[10:48:30] %Rogue> [10:20:33] Not_Jacks_Ghost_at_all> no, i just scammed XD
[10:48:30] %Rogue> [10:20:38] Trax> trying to sell someting even though you are dead just to have someone waste 1.3 million?
[10:48:30] %Rogue> [10:20:44] Not_Jacks_Ghost_at_all> yep
[10:48:30] %Rogue> [10:20:47] Not_Jacks_Ghost_at_all> so fun
[10:48:30] %Rogue> [10:20:50] Not_Jacks_Ghost_at_all> and it worked
[10:48:30] %Rogue> [10:20:50] Trax> Do you need to be banned?
[10:48:30] %Rogue> [10:20:50] Anax> he got me!
[10:48:35] Anax> i got the proof
[10:48:41] Ellias> ok
[10:48:42] Ellias> thanks
[10:48:46] * Ellias wields the ban hammer
[10:48:48] Trax> no, i just scammed XD
[10:48:48] Trax> trying to sell someting even though you are dead just to have someone waste 1.3 million?
[10:48:48] Trax> Not_Jacks_Ghost_at_all> yep
[10:48:48] Trax> Not_Jacks_Ghost_at_all> so fun
[10:48:48] Trax> * NaraRiencam (Nara@SWC-IRC.7339B9915F89E.SWC) Quit (Quit: I am neither blood nor crisp, I am with the Imperial Union)
[10:48:48] Trax> Not_Jacks_Ghost_at_all> and it worked
[10:48:48] Trax> Trax> Do you need to be banned?
[10:48:48] Trax> Anax> he got me!
[10:48:48] Trax> Anax> 1 mil
[10:48:48] Trax> Anax> kick hiss ass
[10:48:54] Anax> You have sent 1,000,000 credits to Jack Rilly with the following message:
[10:48:55] Anax> c wing
[10:49:05] %Rogue> Ellias, it's not the first time he's tried to scam in here since being dead.
[10:49:19] Ellias> ah
[10:49:23] Ellias> definetely being banned
[10:49:29] @Alley> yeah, he was bad
[10:49:30] Anax> Thx
[10:49:34] @Alley> I banned him, Ellias, from here >.>
[10:50:12] Fal> funny idea though
[10:51:53] @Kit_Lorcan> hardly original though
[10:53:25] @Alley> fs
[10:53:26] @Alley> FS: Delta, PLY-3000 -- PM with offers
[10:54:15] * Draven (~dravenele@SWC-IRC.1A501AC9B17FE9.SWC) has left #thetraders
[10:54:15] * Han_Knox is now known as CFSGT_Knox
[10:54:25] Ellias> thanks


Year 11 Day 173 11:43
I didn't break the IC/OCC crap because i was RPing as my ghost therefore enabling me to speak. I even had Jacks_Ghost as my irc name. It was the person stupidity that they sent over credits. 


You don't get a ghost. You don't get to RP. You don't get to speak. You don't get to scam post mortem.

Even Force ghosts got pulled from the rules, so nobody has any excuse for "RPing" as a ghost.


____________

"May the Grace of Ara go with you, and His Vengeance be wrought upon your enemies."

Only fools and children dream of heroes.
Year 11 Day 173 15:18
So dead characters can't setup jobs?


Year 11 Day 173 15:23
I've come to the realization, Tiali, that you half-assedly read every thread you comment in.

You can look forward, but you can't look back.


Year 11 Day 173 15:25
Sim Karr

At least this post didn't have any of the annoying mah's and ah's like usual.


Year 11 Day 173 15:39
Serves the bastard right.


Keir, this is now obviously more than just planning for his next character. He was willingly and knowingly scamming people with the dead character just to screw more people over before he recreates.

I'd personally suggest that the Administration add the 30 days on top of the standard 3 week recreate time. A ban harms him less while dead than when he's ready to respawn.


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ZE_Cronus_sig3.png
ZE-believer.jpg
Year 11 Day 173 16:23
You can look forward, but you can't look back. 


WTH does that mean?

Ah did read the whole post, ah was asking about ghosts setting up a job for someone else in reply to Hal's post about not getting a ghost or to RP or even to speak when dead


Year 11 Day 173 17:12
A ghost shouldn't be setting up a job for anyone. But a player is not a ghost. A character that is dead should not be RPing period.

The player can talk to people and set up jobs and contacts and stuff. The character has no interaction with anyone or anything... except someone's bladed item, or local wildlife eating the body.


____________

"May the Grace of Ara go with you, and His Vengeance be wrought upon your enemies."

Only fools and children dream of heroes.
Year 11 Day 173 17:15
Thank you Hal


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