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Year 12 Day 318 16:36
Arete didn't unilaterally make the decision and overall he's been a good and active ASim. I do think a significant mistake was made here, and I think it needs to be fixed, but placing all the blame on Arete and telling him he should quit is rather extreme.


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swcforumsig

Year 12 Day 318 16:52
Then I withdraw that statement. In it's place I believe a look at the administration team needs to be made, regarding those involved in this decision at least. I recognize they are all volunteers but if you're going to take on that responsibility then you need to act in the interest of the game/player base. The decision that was made clearly does not take that into consideration.


Year 12 Day 318 16:58
Yes despite the girly slap fight he and I got into in another thread, I think Arete stepping down wouldn't be in the best interest of the game.

This current batch of ASims are less cliquish than previous batches have been, and are more concerned with overall game health and balance. So, we need to hold onto this batch as long as we possibly can, and not call for dismissals in these cases were they wasn't any admin bias.

Do I think it was a bad decision? I'm divided on the issue. On one hand had Sia been an american citizen she'd be in trouble with the police right now for what she did, on the other hand i'm all about allowing people to redeem themselves.

Despite how strongly one feels on this issue, getting rid of Arete isn't the answer.


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Goran'alor Dragan be aliit Ora'jair
Alor be Mandal Hypernautics
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Year 12 Day 318 17:02
Elijah, it also needs consideration that perhaps not all the relevant information was available to Arete and those involved in the discussion when the decision was made. It's unreasonable to expect someone to know what they don't know, or base a decision on information that has not been made available to them.

I've already had a discussion with Arete regarding a number of events and factors that apparently he was not aware of, and I am led to understand other people have been doing the same.

To deride the Administration for being willing to listen to someone and take another look at a ban based on a potentially altered situation is unreasonable and insulting to all the time and effort they put in to make the game fair and playable for everyone who wishes to participate.


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"May the Grace of Ara go with you, and His Vengeance be wrought upon your enemies."

Only fools and children dream of heroes.
Year 12 Day 318 17:08
Christopher McVale

if you're going to take on that responsibility then you need to act in the interest of the game/player base.

- Elijah Shoryyhn
 


This. It's been said that they're looking out for the players interest, or acting on behalf of the players...but every player that I know (emphasis on the "that I know") has been completely against this. When the majority of the player base disagrees with your decision, how is that acting on our behalf?

Everyone knows it was against the rules. That was why she was banned in the first place. All this talk about "Well in the future..." screw that. Act now! It was against the rules then, it was against the rules now, and it'll still be against the rules in the future. Regardless of when, how, or even why she broke the rules, she still broke the rules. And not once, but multiple times.

I, like others, don't blame Arete. He did what he thought was right. It's just that I don't think the majority of the community agree (as obvious by the large amount of controversy). I personally think that the permaban should stand. But hey, it's not my call.


Year 12 Day 318 17:11
In case it gets lost in the length of the simnews:

Edit: In the time since her unbanning I have recieved nearly ten-times as much information regarding her actions and intentions than I had when I originally made the case to unban her. In light of this new information, including discussions she had with other admin staff, her own descriptions of her actions in accessing Black Sun's forums, and other incriminating information, I am convinced that her banning was in fact the correct decision and I am overturning my recent decision to unban her. I apologize first to the player of Siarica for being misinformed about her situation and being led to believe, with the information I had, that she was indeed able to return to the game and for bringing up her hopes for that. I secondly apologize to the player community for making a decision when, as it turns out, I was not fully informed of the situation.


With the amount of controversy and fallout the entire the admin staff has recieved on behalf of my actions, I am going to voluntarily take a hiatus from the Combine environment and I will spend the next few days deciding on whether to return or fully step down as ASim.


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Russ> This is an ok game with terrible people.
Year 12 Day 318 17:14
Christopher McVale

Well I for one thank you, Arete. You made a tough decision and then an even tougher one to retract it. My post might have sounded harsh, but I really meant no ill will, and I really hope you decide to return. You really have done an overall excellent job.


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Year 12 Day 318 17:14
It happens with every major decision, and it always will. The difference here is that the current set of ASims are actually willing to reconsider the information when significant player feedback is received in response. I truly don't believe anyone on the current team should quit, and I do believe they all have the interests of the game as a whole in mind (keeping in mind as well that ASims do not actually function as representatives of the playerbase, which seems to be a misconception in this thread) rather than their own interests or those of their friends. And I hope that isn't taken for granted.


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swcforumsig

Year 12 Day 318 17:18
It's seems I may have been too harsh towards Arete (this not in light of the recent Sim News edit). The Sim News made it sound as if he were the driving force behind the decision. I think he's a good guy and I have seen him on multiple occasions act to help the player community. In this case I just felt it was too far over the line to give him the benefit of the doubt. In fact Hal, I had not considered that Arete did not have all the information to make an informed decision. His recent edit to the Sim News underscores this point.

Arete I do apologize. I think you made a good call, the right call, overturning the decision to unban Siarica. I recognize that it was a decision based on more information surfacing and that you as an ASim didn't change in this case. If that makes sense. Forgive me for my harsh words and I hope that you decide to return and continue your volunteer efforts as an ASim.


Year 12 Day 318 17:19
When the majority of the player base disagrees with your decision, how is that acting on our behalf? 


Because if you want to act in someone's best interests, you give them what they need, not what they want.



Flip it around for a moment - taking the argument at face value: You're in Siarica's shoes. You've done something you didn't know was against the rules, and have been permanently banned from the game by an individual who has been criticised in the past for being harsh with his punishments.
Wouldn't you want someone like Arete to be willing to take another look at your case?



Nobody acted inappropriately, but perhaps they acted ignorantly.


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"May the Grace of Ara go with you, and His Vengeance be wrought upon your enemies."

Only fools and children dream of heroes.
Year 12 Day 318 17:20
Don't step down Arete.


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Goran'alor Dragan be aliit Ora'jair
Alor be Mandal Hypernautics
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Year 12 Day 318 17:27
Don't leave us with Jesfa and Jenos!

Though wait...maybe its a conspiracy with names that start with J...


Year 12 Day 318 17:30
Punishments for major infractions have always been arbitrary because most of those situations are not covered explicity in the rules. The broad guidlines set in the rules make for a good guideline, but I, for one, am thankful that the ASIM team has some discretion on those matters, and I trust that in each case they are making the decision they feel is best for the game.

Thank You. Really.


Year 12 Day 318 17:34
Tar, you know who else said their servers were unhackable?


Year 12 Day 318 18:02
i really hope you dont step down Arete you are a really fantastic Asim!


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In self-defense and in defense of the innocent, cowardice is the only sin
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Year 12 Day 318 20:13
In all honesty, I was absolutely livid when I first saw Siarica pop onto IRC yesterday..

She made sure to pop on a channel that she was most definitely not welcome, throw it in a few people's faces that she was back, that what she did was 'just a test' (I was there for that conversation), and actually saying that what she did was alright because it would lead her to a RL job..

Get over yourself sunshine..

I'm not a well liked person in game. I consort with criminals, and in turn am one if you ask most people.. But I damn sure play by the rules. To have someone playing side by side me in this game that absolutely has shown that they cannot adhere to those rules is preposterous.

I was ready to kick, bite, and scratch with Arete on this overturning of the Permaban, but I'm glad that it has already been taken care of, due to the large amount of players that feel the same as I do on this situation.

I can understand how more information has been brought to the light that has made this a permananet decision to keep her banned.. and I think it takes a brave man to receive as much criticism that he takes on a daily basis, and stick to what he's doing, and by that I mean over-over-turning the ban and making it stick..

No harm, no foul.. She's gone, and I can atleast play peacefully knowing that atleast one player who has no regards for the rules of the game (that I myself stick to), is gone..


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Year 12 Day 318 20:56
Myrhrai Isalia Rosiir

Arete is willing to listen to the players, work with them and do what he/she believes is the right thing to do.

I hope you enjoy your time away, and await your return to your asim duties.




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GRAPH.ping
Year 12 Day 318 21:14
I hate to say it the ban is the best thing in this case. and Arete not be blame here. and I hope my ideas about the hacker are not true. But sadly they usually are.


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Year 12 Day 318 23:22
Seele

I agree with Hal; decisions made by the ASims or Admins are not taken on what is popular, nor what is wanted. The Administration has to weigh decisions on the base of the game and its direction, which is often at ends with some of the player's ideas of what the game is and where its headed.

It's not easy being an ASim, lord knows I was one and took plenty of blows on behalf of the Administration for decisions I didn't even make, merely announced. The Administration leans towards collective decision making and rarely are decisions made in a vacuum regarding an issue. I also know they're very busy people and sometimes will just go along with an idea without going into too much detail surrounding it; playing off the surface information which can make it seem like a fair or good idea.

Sadly, sometimes it's not, and as an Admin I had to reverse even my own bans. Those BS chimps I unbanned after it was revealed that Keir was deliberately hiding information from the Admins in his complaint regarding "cheating" was a prime example of having to go back over a case and seriously look at every minor detail, event, timestamp etc to try and discern what happened, the order it happened, and who had said what. It's not an easy job and for the most part thankless regardless of what you do.

Whilst I understand the pressues and woes of being an ASim or an Admin, and I think Arete is doing a good job and shouldn't resign; I feel the unbanning of Siarca to be a major error and likely a decision made in haste and unwittingly with only half the facts pertaining to the matter. Easy to do, but easy to rectify.

Respect to anyone able to stand in front of 3,000 people and say "I was wrong. I have corrected the action."


Edited By: Seele on Year 12 Day 318 23:27
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"Seele's Law: As a New Republic Senate discussion grows longer, the probability of comparison involving the Galactic Empire approaches 1."
Year 12 Day 318 23:30
4,000, not 3,000.

Or if we talk about the people who actaully read the Sim News, you added an extra 0.


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"May the Grace of Ara go with you, and His Vengeance be wrought upon your enemies."

Only fools and children dream of heroes.
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