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Year 12 Day 333 10:21
Gort Horth

What's the plan with NPC skills? Are they going to be enabled in the future or no? I'm wondering specifically about things like Infantry Command, Space Command, Naval tactics, Leadership. . .stuff that would make significant game changes were the skills enabled for NPC's. Obviously they're not, because you can't form squads with an NPC that has Infantry Command. OTOH, NPC builders exist. . .so. . .we're supposed to think what?


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My psychiatrist told me I was crazy and I said I want a second opinion. He said okay, you're ugly too.
Year 12 Day 333 15:09
You're... supposed to think that NPCs with skills will be enabled when there's a use for those skills?


Year 12 Day 335 22:50
Gort Horth

We could make it a simpler question: why does the Infantry Command skill not function for NPC's? That skill is marked as fully implemented. If the skill is found as a racial bonus and if it's "fully implemented" why do NPC's not demonstrate the skill?


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My psychiatrist told me I was crazy and I said I want a second opinion. He said okay, you're ugly too.
Year 12 Day 335 22:53
What do you suggest they do with it?

And the "implemented" thing is for players, which is true, it affects the number of squads you can control. Though "partially implemented" would likely be a better status for it, since I think it might be used for something else Combat-related in the future.


Year 12 Day 336 0:09
A large portion of the currently used skills are primarily for PCs as it affects how they manage the NPCs. NPCs having this skill useful doesn't really make a lot of sense. As with your Infantry Command example, you'll just end up with the whole 'turtles all the way down' effect.


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Ellias_sig6.png
Year 12 Day 336 13:07
Gort Horth

If Infantry Command were "fully implemented" in NPC's the same as PC's, then any player could party with up to 11 Infantry Commander NPC's, and through them, order around up to 77 squads. Similar would be true of Space Command and Vehicle Command were those skills implemented in similar fashion.

My question is, will this ever occur?


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My psychiatrist told me I was crazy and I said I want a second opinion. He said okay, you're ugly too.
Year 12 Day 336 13:10
Private one-sentient armies? Doubtful


Year 12 Day 336 17:41
Um, technically you could have an infinite army - you have 12 NPCs in your party. Plus however many squads you can manage. Each of those NPCs can have a party plus x squads. And all those NPCs can have the same. And so on. Thats just plain dumb.

The skills are primarily for PC usage. Some will be useful for NPCs (such as the projectile weapon skills etc) while some will not (ie the aforementioned Command skills). Before you ask why they have them then, a) its because the NPCs needed a skill set similar to a 1st level PC to avoid the whole 30+ free skill points to turn them into unseeable, forces of nature in combat, and b) to add some RP flavour to them.


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Ellias_sig6.png
Year 12 Day 336 21:26
Gort Horth

Um, technically you could have an infinite army - you have 12 NPCs in your party. Plus however many squads you can manage. Each of those NPCs can have a party plus x squads. And all those NPCs can have the same. And so on. Thats just plain dumb.Um, technically you could have an infinite army - you have 12 NPCs in your party. Plus however many squads you can manage. Each of those NPCs can have a party plus x squads. And all those NPCs can have the same. And so on. Thats just plain dumb. 

Yeah, that would be just plain dumb but that's not what I asked about.

There needs to be some explanation of what skills NPC's will not be able to use. NPC skills are used liberally for things like building. That alters the game dynamic fantastically in favor of all those players who want to build. So we have a builder game with no combat.

If we're ever going to have a combat game, the same sorts of provision need to be made for NPC commanders. If not, then not. It's not "just plain dumb" to expect command skills to function for NPC's. Obviously, it's stupid to suppose these skills might work in multi-tiered fashion to make it possible for any PC to command infinite numbers of troops, vehicles and ships of all types.

That's not what I asked about.

Given there are already many more NPC's than the players can command, many, many times more vehicles than the players can drive, and thousands of times more ships in the SWC universe than there are players, it's not "dumb" to ask how command will work in the future. Rather, it's "dumb" to avoid the question or dispense with it as if it were not an obvious issue. Same with the Leadership and Naval Tactics skills.

Looks like building, and building and building so much stuff that the players can't possibly keep up is just game-time masturbation for those who do the building. If you can't use all these NPC's, vehicles and ships in combat, it's little wonder there's no rush to put combat in the game.


Edited By: Gort Horth on Year 12 Day 336 21:40
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My psychiatrist told me I was crazy and I said I want a second opinion. He said okay, you're ugly too.
Year 12 Day 336 22:13
Yes there are lots more stuff that we could use. On the other hand a player with a high Inf Command skill can have around 70 NPCs or something. Same will work with vehicles, fighters etc presumably.

As for NPC skills being used liberally, as far as I am aware the only real time NPC skills are used are in A/E events, and possibly combat if skill usage has been added now. Building, mining, construction etc don't use the NPCs skills to modify the time/cost - thats all down to the PCs skills.


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Ellias_sig6.png
Year 12 Day 337 1:17
Myrhrai Isalia Rosiir

Actually Ellias the last bit is wrong.

http://www.swcombine.com/rules/?Station_Construction


4.1/ Time
Equations
((Material Sum) / 250) * (1 - (NPCs/250))^Leadership * (1 - (Civilisation Level / 5)) * Random
Quantity of Materials
Leadership Skill of Builder
Number of NPC Builders (1 - 25)
Civilisation Level*
Random (0.9..1.1) 


Edited By: Myrhrai Isalia Rosiir on Year 12 Day 337 1:18
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GRAPH.ping
Year 12 Day 337 1:21
Gort Horth

Thanks Ellias. It sounds like you have official answers. Are you an admin?

I have quite a few other questions about some NPC skill functions if you don't mind. I do realize that your answers are in no way binding, but I want to have some idea whether training NPC's with specific skills will most likely have beneficial results. This effects daily gameplay now since I play an Infantry Commander and I work full-time at training NPC's.

Lets say you have Infantry Command 4, so you are able to command your own party, plus 5 squads. Unlike the party that always moves with you, the indirectly controlled squads can be released in a sense in at least two ways: they can be set to guard, or to patrol. In order for them to remain under their player's control, the player needs to stay in the same terrain grid, city grid, building, or ship. At least that's as much as I think I understand. Please correct me if I'm wrong. Now for some questions on this. . .

If a squad is set to patrol, will it move around the terrain, city or ship it's in? Seems it would need to in order to do something other than guarding. Do patrolling squads accumulate exp pts in the same way as when they're marched around by a PC? Do patrolling squads move from room to room in ships and buildings? If a squad is patrolling and its PC Commander leaves the grid or ship, will the squad simply go inert, but stay in the PC's squad list? If so, will it automatically go active should the PC re-enter that grid or ship?

If a squad is set to guard, will it remain in place until it is given new orders or the player leaves the grid or ship?

If NPC's are on a grid or ship but not squaded, does this mean they will not defend? Attacking parties can simply walk by unsquaded NPC's in terrain, city , buildings or ships without fighting them?

Is there an allowance made to have more than the max number of NPC's allowed on a ship when it is being boarded? If not, seems the obvious way to stop ships from being boarded is fill them with box-stackers so that attacking troops can't enter. That would be terrible.

If a player is in control of multiple squads that are guarding or patrolling a grid, building, or ship, and an enemy enters and attacks a squad, will the patrolling squads respond or does the PC need to inform them? Do patrolling squads automatically try to arrest enemy PC's or does this require a PC present?

In avoiding arrest, you implied that party members aid in defense of an arrest. Is this true and do squads likewise aid in resisting arrest? What is the group formula for arrest/resisting arrest?

Finally on this issue, can the Infantry Command skill be used to remotely control droids in the same way? Do droids in a party or squad aid in arrest/resisting arrest?

On the other skills I'm curious about: does the Leadership skill in an NPC effect a squad? For example, suppose I want to form NPC squads to guard a city. Is there value in having at least 1 NPC in each squad with the Leadership skill in order to give a higher functionality to the squad when not connected directly to its PC? Likewise, does the Infantry Command skill raise the functionality of a squad if held by an NPC?

Finally, is the Naval Tactics skill expected to be useful in NPC's? Would it be worthwhile to raise an NPC's Naval Tactics and Leadership and leave that NPC on the bridge of a ship, in order to have it available once entity combat comes out? If yes, would that NPC need to be partied with a PC in order for the ship to gain that benefit?

Sorry for the too may questions. Please take your time. I have hunted for these answers for some time and the fact I can't find them seems reason enough to hope to get some here in the questions forum. I'm sure there are many people with the same questions since the answers are not in the rules. It might seem many of these questions could be answered by simple experimentation but this is not true. Fact is, squading is all kinds of buggy. I'll be able to identify the bugs once I know for sure how squading is intended to work, but for sure; try to board a ship for an hour and you'll be convinced--squading is not functioning properly yet. It creates all kinds of whacky behavior.

Thanks!


Edited By: Gort Horth on Year 12 Day 337 1:43
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My psychiatrist told me I was crazy and I said I want a second opinion. He said okay, you're ugly too.
Year 12 Day 337 1:25
Teyacapan Quetzalxochitl

"Actually Ellias the last bit is wrong."

No, it's right. The skill referenced is the one of the player, not the npc.


Year 12 Day 337 1:35
Gort Horth

Teya, is this a Halloween avatar? Could be the top of the pic is cut off but it looks like a little girl hung herself.


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My psychiatrist told me I was crazy and I said I want a second opinion. He said okay, you're ugly too.
Year 12 Day 337 1:51
Teyacapan Quetzalxochitl

Hanged, not hung. She's not a drag queen.


Year 12 Day 337 2:07
Myrhrai, as Ten said its the skill of the builder, not the builder NPCs.

Gorth, the majority of what you ask is unknown - until creature combat is finished and squad v squad combat is done, no-one really knows exactly how it will work.

Pretty much the only questions there that can be answered is: NPCs set to patrol will gain XP as normal - my NPCs have gone to lvl 6 and above already. Also, droids can be added I believe and walk as normal. As for leaving a city where you have a squad, sure - back with my NPCs I've only been back to my city a few times in the last few months and they continue on walking. They must be very tired by now.


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Ellias_sig6.png
Year 12 Day 337 13:24
They are either very loyal, or just too damn scared to stop without being told thay can :D


Year 12 Day 337 15:40
Gort Horth

Gorth, the majority of what you ask is unknown - until creature combat is finished and squad v squad combat is done, no-one really knows exactly how it will work. 

Thanks for your candid response. Surely though, there is at least one exception. A/E has been enacted and IC/squading has been enacted. Does no one here know whether parties and squads help in arrest and resist arrest? I don't see anything about this in the rules.


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My psychiatrist told me I was crazy and I said I want a second opinion. He said okay, you're ugly too.
Year 12 Day 337 15:56
They don't help.

In the future, as Zhao has explained, A/E will be an end result of Combat, so in a roundabout way yes, they will be involved, through shooting your foes.


Year 12 Day 343 17:02
Is this the place to ask, Ellias (or anyone else), how you go about assigning your NPCs to patrol? i've looked in the Rules, and in the Guide, and tried to figure out by going through the NPC section under the Character options, but no luck.

And may I ask, ho long did it take you to get them to 6th level? A month or marching? A year?

Thanks!

KM


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"When all is said and done, there's nothing left to say or do."

-- Darryl Dawkins
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