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Year 12 Day 347 9:51
Shuji Shizuka

So, here's a question. I know that it' against the golden rule to track the location of items on other people's ships to discover where they are if held by someone who's arrested, yadda yadda....

But...

What about NPC's? Is it acceptable to track NPC's in this manner? It seems to me that tracking them would be the equivalent of them reporting in from their location, etc. Ie, a spy. This to me seems fair, as it would be quite easily countered by simply kicking the npc off the ship or killing it, something that's not so easy with items.


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Year 12 Day 347 12:04
No, it's not acceptable.


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"May the Grace of Ara go with you, and His Vengeance be wrought upon your enemies."

Only fools and children dream of heroes.
Year 12 Day 347 12:28
Shuji Shizuka

Okay....any chance of that getting changed seeing as how there are more ways to counter it than there are with items and it would make far more sense to have an employee report in than having some sort of intergalactic tracking device in every belt?


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Year 12 Day 347 14:01
i agree with this idea but Hal will probably just say no again.


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Hunters have this pattern of becoming hunted.
Year 12 Day 347 14:12
Only makes sense if you have them equipped with some sort of communications device, otherwise your justification doesn't really hold water because I think I'd notice someone standing at a console on my ship sending position updates every millisecond.


Year 12 Day 347 14:14
Shuji Shizuka

Very true. However there are other places on a ship where communications could be established, particularly capital ships. However, for simplicities sake, I agree.

So can I suggest something along those lines, or will it be closed? Hal?


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Year 12 Day 347 16:53
Harlynn Kinn

Id also like to know more about this...Hal?


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One foot in the grave. Another planted on your throat.
"Your focus. Needs more focus."
Year 12 Day 347 20:00
If I may add my 2 decacredits worth:

You're suggesting that an NPC have the ability to "decide" to contact a PC, in order to disclose his/her location to you, across half the galaxy? That seems to give an awful lot of discretion (and power) to an NPC, as well as making it nearly impossible to prevent such conversations by the owner.

Let's say I sell an NPC to a buyer, with the intention of having said NPC become a spy. Will I always be able to have that NPC contact me? I'm assuming that's what you're considering here, since there'd be no way for you to have any contact with an NPC that another player recruited on their own, right?

You're suggesting then that a purchased NPC would never be able to have his allegiance verified.

What I'd be more likely to expect, since this happens in the real world, are tracking devices, ones hidden onboard vehicles and ships. Then, of course, you'd have to have sweepers (which again, are made use of in the real world) to detect such tricks. And of course, there would likely be limits to the range of such devices, as well as the ability to turn the signal around and track its owner.

If it were my call, I'd suggest this: you want a spy, then hire a spy. A PC spy.

But, as I said, that's only my 2 decacredits worth.

KM


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"When all is said and done, there's nothing left to say or do."

-- Darryl Dawkins
Year 12 Day 347 20:03
From what ah understand, it would only be NPCs you own that you could track, not ones you sold to someone else


Year 12 Day 347 20:24
A PC standing on board a ship that they are not assigned to knows the name of the ship and the room they are in. But you want a NPC to be able to broadcast his location to you on demand and have more information available to him than an equivalent PC?

Just assuming we ignore for a moment the potential (probable) lack of a communications device, or access to ship's systems.

This makes sense to you?


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"May the Grace of Ara go with you, and His Vengeance be wrought upon your enemies."

Only fools and children dream of heroes.
Year 12 Day 347 20:32
Shuji Shizuka

Not really, no.

I was asking if NPC's could be used to locate their position in the same way as items used to be before that was overruled, using the logic that NPC's could physically make contact via commlink or whatever. Not that NPC's be given some sort of special system for the purpose.


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Year 12 Day 348 8:01
If anything, they would need some sort of communication device and a gps in order to tel you where they were.


Year 12 Day 348 8:30
Shuji Shizuka

Which goes back to the question, Hal, can I suggest a system for that^ without getting hit?


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Year 12 Day 348 9:37
I was asking if NPC's could be used to locate their position in the same way as items used to be before that was overruled... 

If I may be allowed to interpret the actions of the simulation moderators, there is an in-game "allowance," shall we say, that provides the location for inanimate objects, so that you can retrieve them. This prevents the use -- in impolite company, it's called "theft" -- by PCs of certain objects, like armor and weapons, without giving their location away.

But NPCs, because they are by nature different in capabilities. Except, I DO know where all of my purchased NPCs currently are, down to the individual spot in the terrain square, if they're on the ground. Although they currently do communicate their position this way, they obviously don't have any communication device with which to contact me.

So, are you asking for the ability to communicate their location on a ship? On your own ships, or on someone else's ship? And would that mean, then, that you should be able to change their orders, since you're obviously in communication, which, BTW, I can do with my NPCs on the ground (at least, as far as cancelling their current orders -- I cannot choose a new patrol grid, for example, unless I'm there to point it out to them).

Obviously, there are limited accommodations made for NPCs that are designed to assist the PC in controlling them, but again, they're limited, I would guess, to keep them from becoming walking homing beacons.

I'll stay away from the concept of communicating when either party is in hyperspace. (:^/)

KM


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"When all is said and done, there's nothing left to say or do."

-- Darryl Dawkins
Year 12 Day 348 12:04
Harlynn Kinn

Isn't that what the tracking device is used for? To track things...

Would it be acceptable to just equip the NPC with a tracking device so you could, well, you know, track them?


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HK_sig_1.png
One foot in the grave. Another planted on your throat.
"Your focus. Needs more focus."
Year 12 Day 348 13:22
All of this kinda makes since to me. I agree with the whole comm device. Maybe not the gps because most people know what ship there boarding in rl so. How about you make it so that. You have kinda like a hail button called contact with the npc. And it will tell you where it is[General] its room[specific] and whats around it[pc's are specific but npcs and items are general]


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Hunters have this pattern of becoming hunted.
Year 12 Day 348 14:23
A PC standing on board a ship that they are not assigned to knows the name of the ship and the room they are in. But you want a NPC to be able to broadcast his location to you on demand and have more information available to him than an equivalent PC? 

Actually, l'll go you one farther (Further? Farther? Ahh...):

Let's say your NPC gets promoted from gathering a ton of experience, due to being able to walk a patrol grid for seven months and not ever have to stop for rain or shine, bathroom breaks or birthdays, and that NPC then gets to command a Mon Calamari cruiser, and is on the bridge of said cruiser, and orders everyone else off of the bridge, so that he and he alone could use the comm frequencies, and has a special tracking and transmission device linked to a plug in your own ear --

Still, I say, it's an NPC., and as a non-player character, it should by definition be prohibited from certain character actions.

I would say, maybe, maybe, your NPC could be allowed to click a preset message from that very Mon Calamari ship, once every day or week. Maybe choose from a standard set of messages, like:

1) Arrived at destination.

2) Proceeding with orders.

3) Under attack.

3) Drifting in a vacuum.

And I know you'll give me grief for that last one: "How would they be able to communicate if they're drifting in space?"

Devil's always in the details.


Edit: In retrospect, however...

I could see someone ask, "If I can command a group of NPCs to build a complex system of facilities, and after a few days, there's a message in my in-box that says, 'Billy Bob's Bangin' Biltmore Hostel and Pay-As-You-Go Weekly Storage' on planet ExWyGee just finished construction," then how is it different than having a single NPC sending me a single communication that reads, 'Hey, I just arrived at ExWyGee planet, now looking to book a suite of rooms at 'Billy Bob's Bangin' Biltmore Hostel and Pay-As-You-Go Weekly Storage,' although I'm not sure we need any storage'?

KM


Edited By: Konorro Morroeez on Year 12 Day 348 20:18
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"When all is said and done, there's nothing left to say or do."

-- Darryl Dawkins
Year 12 Day 349 23:16
You all are acting like they don't tell you what entity they are located in, which they do. If you do not have experience with the situation in question and the information that is, and is not displayed, please refrain from commenting on what should be displayed.

Shuji, you are still suggesting that NPCs magically have access to information that a PC in the same situation would not have. If it was changed, you could therefore spawn a custom NPC using CPs, and know your own location, even if you don't have access to it. This is known as a loophole, and is one of the underlying reasons for this restriction. So while the topic is not restricted, the suggestion will not go through.

Harlynn, while a tracking device theoretically is used for tracking things, referring to the rules page will show that it has not yet been implemented (the red icon with the white X next to the picture), so using a tracking device to track someone is currently as illegal as using any other item.


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"May the Grace of Ara go with you, and His Vengeance be wrought upon your enemies."

Only fools and children dream of heroes.
Year 12 Day 349 23:30
Shuji Shizuka

Well this has been derailed a bit, what I asked originally was, is it acceptable to track an npc using the 'show on galaxy map' feature in the way that items used to be, before that became against the rules.

If no, then I asked if you would allow a suggestion as to how they could tell you their position. I'm not suggesting more info than a PC would have, i'm suggesting exactly the same amount. If standing on a planet, they would tell you"i'm located at position 1,4(for example) in city XXX on planet fakseville", just the same as a PC would get in the position box at the top left of their position interface. If on a ship, it would be, "I'm located onboard the Bulk Freighter XXX, at system x, sector x" etc etc while in hyper, it would be, "I'm located on the bulk freighter XXX, in hyper". Basicaly, what they show in the inventory now.

Edit: clarification:

Currently, i've got an npc that I own. In the inventory, it shows:

Passenger in: CR-90 Corvette *xxxxxxxxxxxxx* (#XXXXX)
Room: Entrance/Exit (#5553)
Sector: *xxxxx*
System: *xxxxx* (xx, xxx)
Planet Orbit: *xxxxx* (xx, x)

The ship it's on is mine. I'm asking if it is acceptable and not against the golden rule to use this info obtain the position of someone else's ship, as some used to do before it was ruled that item tracking was against the golden rule. The logic being that NPC's, being sentient, could report back.




Edited By: Shuji Shizuka on Year 12 Day 349 23:35
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Year 12 Day 349 23:48
Shuji, as Hal said don't make suggestions about things you do not know. Yes if oyu have an NPC it tells you its exact location if you own the entity (possibly if you also have access, though not sure about that). If you don't own the entity its in, then all it gives you is the name of the entity its in - same as would be given to a PC. SO it already does exactly as you ask, and so no suggestion is needed.

As for your original question about using the map, as was stated much earlier it is not alright to use that.


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