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Year 13 Day 144 23:11
Gort, I don't see how either of those would work in combine. 

You don't see how they'd work?

Simple: they're as visible as a sun. They give off radiation, just as a solar mass does.

In fact, most black holes (of the size we're discussing, which is multiple hundreds or thousands of solar masses) give off more energy than that many solar masses.

The term "black hole" is a complete misnomer. Hell, we can detect black holes in other galaxies, they're so powerful.

And if their presence is known mostly to only a handful of experienced pilots and/or players, then they seem a completely capricious means of weeding out less experienced players -- especially if you can only detect them through their gravity, which, as is admitted above, may or may not be beneath another nearby gravity-producing entity.

And if we're talking only "small" black holes, the kind of single solar mass, then the only method capable of producing them is a supernova, whose effects are also easily detectable.

Everything in this galaxy is mappable, from asteroid fields to trading stations. If our nav computers can store information on items as small as man-made stations and 1x1 entities, if our sensors can detect small craft like fighters and even satellites, then there is no intelligent reason why a massively powerful object like a black hole should not also be included in such displays.

Nor is there any reason why any rationally-designed navigational system could not blurt out a warning to avoid that violently powerful gravity disturbance ahead.

I mean, even a 21st Century combustion-powered ground vehicle can now detect a tricycle in its blind spot.



Year 13 Day 145 12:37

You missed my point. I don't see how that'd work in combine, in the sense, how would they work gameplay wise, when taken into the SW version of them.

Star Wars and the Real World clash on many levels, and given the fact that we're not quite either, gameplay is taken into account as well. Given the canon SW references, is where my argument would come from. Real life mechanics really don't make for good SW or even gameplay 95% of the time.


Year 13 Day 146 4:09
Umbeck Traxer

Well I think they are taken into consideration for gameplay by the grav well showing up and being massive... as well it should be.
I do not think there need to be any changes with the holes. Technically you could argue they would be bright as stars if they were feeding on stars, but eh, I am content with them not being all over the galaxy and showing up as gravity phenomenons.

Year 13 Day 148 7:51
I would also accept the status quo of the black holes, but only if there was a resource somewhere that spelled out where they all were, right now, sector by sector. And that resource would need to be updated, if any new BHs were spawned.

That way, all navigators would have an equal chance at avoiding them, given that they take the proper precautions.



Year 13 Day 148 8:13
Teyacapan Quetzalxochitl

Just stay out of grav wells that aren't accompanying any planetary bodies. That's plenty of opportunity to avoid them. -.-

Year 13 Day 148 12:36
Hopefully factions might do some cool things, like posting warning stations/satellites around the black hole once they discovered its location. There are enough wonderful IC opportunities for those things, that I don't believe an OOC listing of that type is necessary.

Year 13 Day 148 20:12
Ten, your suggestion to simply avoid their gravity wells would be fine, if they weren't overshadowed in places by other bodies, which has been suggested above.

And Mikel, it would be nice if some other faction took the trouble to point them out with some sort of navigational beacon.

But since we already have plenty of info in the Nav computer (ie: the accessible database), why is including the same mapped data on black holes considered OOC? They are exactly what I suggest: a vitally important point in space that should be mapped, as is every other galactic body. If we can map insignificant asteroid fields, and that info is IC'ly included in every Nav computer, then why exclude something far more gravitationally noticeable and potentially more dangerous?

I'll answer my own question: because as an in-game danger, invisible black holes are a very real challenge in an otherwise relatively safe environment.

But it just makes no sense: if your computer plots a safe in-system journey by going around a sun, it should plain and simply do the exact same thing for a black hole.

Or is this intentional oversight designed to be a fatal danger to the new and inexperienced player? Is this a pitfall designed to weed out new players, despite the need to grow by attracting new players to what is a static group of only a few thousand players?

That's a question I can't answer.



Year 13 Day 148 23:03
Teyacapan Quetzalxochitl

It's fine even if they're partly overshadowed (as far as I've seen, they're never more than partly overshadowed). They're noted on the galaxy map so you'll never fly in unknowing that there's one in a system. Unless you just fly in blindly and notice nothing out of the ordinary in the gravity wells, I suppose. Which would be your own damned fault.

Related, ran across this and giggled. http://www.swcombine.com/rules/?Galaxy_Map&systemID=1396

Year 13 Day 149 2:13
"Look at the size of that thing!"


Seele shot first.
Year 13 Day 149 17:59
They're noted on the galaxy map so you'll never fly in unknowing that there's one in a system.  

Ah, well, that makes all the difference in the world. In the words of Emilie LaTella, "Never mind."™

And yes, that link you provided to Endor's Gate is funny. Makes me want to pay someone for a pickup at 7, 9.



Year 13 Day 149 21:51

Pretty cool.


Year 13 Day 150 6:32
Ben Camden

Doesn't gravity affect hyper travel? Would a more obscure possibility of warning against the presence of a black hole be to move the hyper entry-point 5 spaces along the edge of the system?


Senior Governor Ben Camden
Regional Government
Year 13 Day 151 18:09
Ben, I take it you mean when you enter a system, your entry point is not a corner, but adjusted by x number of squares to left or right, depending on the presence of a black hole in system?

I like that idea. A lot.



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