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Archives » Being forced to speak German in SWC?
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Ethan Travis

It doesnt matter in any case, you started conversation with him , he didnt want to speak English with you , it was up to you to comply or stop the conversation, not the other way around, he could even ignore you if he wished so.


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EthanTravis
''If gods do exist, we need to start looking for ways to kill them''
Higelourmi Everivir

Now I want to know who this odd fellow is.


Rupert Havok

Don't let other people's requirements for interaction offend you or get your hackles all up.

- Kay Dalben
 

A very admirable point-of-view, although one can see larger issues at play here.

In the Star Wars Combine's past, there have been several groups who took ethnocentrism and/or nationalism to inappropriate extremes. For example: There was one bygone faction -- which shall remain unnamed -- that only accepted players who spoke Russian in DMs and on IRC. They also wouldn't execute any Russian players whom they arrested in order to be respectful of their fellow countrymen. In short, they injected nationalistic prejudices into their routine interactions with other SWC players.

However, in this particular instance, I agree it is not a big deal that a lone German player prefers his native language to communicate. I can understand how he feels; I sympathize with him due to his linguistic barrier. But, in a broader context, we should remember there have been several nationalistic cliques in the past who have utilized OOC "requirements for interaction" to undermine IC gameplay. They embodied the worst aspects of the SWC community. It's always sad whenever the ugly prejudices of the real world crop-up in this fantasy bubble that we call the Star Wars Combine.


I thought huttese was supposed to be German 


That would be the Imperials that are supposed to be Germans.


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ZE-believer.jpg
Ethan Travis

I still think he has the right to choose to speak German, because he was getting contacted not the other way around. As things stand, it appears that both parties demanded the other to speak in language that they deemed acceptable, the German guy didnt initiate the conversation and probably had no wish to do it, not to mention he is not obliged to answer in English or answer at all , if he didnt start the conversation.


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EthanTravis
''If gods do exist, we need to start looking for ways to kill them''
Venari Haliat

Just speak French to him.

Ce qui est en place, je l'aime ciel violet.


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There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
- Hamlet
Ethanol, he arrested my npcs. So I had no choice but to contact him about what was going on.

I mentioned before I can understand Germany just fine. When it is spoken to me. I can also talk back.

Reading however, is something altogether different. Especially when the opposite party seems to be going out of its way to deliberately speak as bureaucratic as possible.

And in delicate situations like negotiating prisoner release understanding the opposition is paramount.

Now writing back in Germany, especially when wanting to get the nuances right, is extremely difficult.

And once again, he initiated contact by arresting my npcs.

Venari, oui, je pouvais faire ca, mais le probleme avec cette action est que je faisais le meme chose que je voulait qu'il ne fait pas. Utiliser un langue qui n'existe pas dans l'universe de Star Wars.

Centraal que j'avais fait est que j'ai parle avec lui dans la langue ancienne de Corellian. Mais je pense pas qu'il l'avait trouwe amusant.

And just in case anybody was wondering, I'm from the Netherlands, so my native language is Dutch.


Edited By: Hober Mallow on Year 16 Day 288 6:50
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[img]http://id.swc-tradefederation.org/hober_mallow_sig.png[/img]
Yke hyon fhars oblivyn cnous oblivyn.
Venari Haliat

Juste assez, je me demande quel corellienne antique serait liee a notre monde.

Hopefully you get your NPCs back.


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There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
- Hamlet
L'ancien Corellienne, ou Olys Correlisi, etait development dans quelques livres et notallement dans le jeu de role de Star Wars de West End Games. En Francais c'est paru dans un edition de Jeux Describes.

The npcs are dead. After I informed him OOC that I didn't want to speak Germany as the German language doesn't exist within the Star Wars universe, he executed my npcs.


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[img]http://id.swc-tradefederation.org/hober_mallow_sig.png[/img]
Yke hyon fhars oblivyn cnous oblivyn.
Venari Haliat

Bon a savoir que les anglais n'est pas la seule chose qui existe dans le star wars universe

I have no idea what universe is in French.


He seems like an a-hole.


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There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
- Hamlet
Denton Dabbs

Okay, so here's the thing...

On a whim I decided to try a search on the character's name. And guess what?

It turned up all of his forum posts. And they were all in English. 


I think forum posts need to be in English, same with the #swc IRC channels.


I know.

It just proves that he is capable but simply refuses.


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[img]http://id.swc-tradefederation.org/hober_mallow_sig.png[/img]
Yke hyon fhars oblivyn cnous oblivyn.
Fritjof Blom

I always viewed galactic basic as being whatever language the viewer/reader spoke.


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Relevant video
In SWC's case galactic basic is English, considering it is one of the more widely known languages that most people at least know a spattering of, and a good amount of the player base uses semi fluently.


"[Forum posts made by DDTM in English] just proves that he is capable but simply refuses [to speak English in DMs]." - Hober Mallow

He simply refuses, just like you were/are capable of speaking German to him, and simply refuse. You have your reason, and so does he. Your reason is foolish inflated nonsense, and his we can't evaluate because he's not participating in this discussion.

At the time you took your ill-advised affront at his polite request for you to speak German with him, you believed his reasons were that he had a language barrier. yet you insisted on speaking English because 'German's an OOC language, but English isn't'. You clearly valued your 'immersion' higher than accommodating someone's language barrier. That clearly makes you the one acting inappropriately, regardless of whether you still think you're correct that English = Galactic Basic and German = some language that doesn't belong in Star Wars.

This subsequent "proof" he can speak English does nothing to bolster your initial selfish and inconsiderate position at refusing to accommodate someone else because you can't spare that tiny bit of enjoyment from your mind-bogglingly fastidious definition of 'immersion'. You weren't entitled to be High and Mighty then when you thought he couldn't speak English well, and you're not entitled now. You also don't get to retcon your reasons after the fact: Nowhere previously have you represented the reason you didn't want to speak in German was because you can't speak it well and you're worried about nuances in negotiation. That's total nonsense you've invented Now. At the time, you got puffed up and ruffled because you didn't want to break your precious immersion, period, end of stupid story.

Get over yourself, and stop feeling entitled to high standards of fun at the expense of someone else. Nobody is going to be forced to speak any language they don't want to in DMs. There's consequences for your choices and his choices (you don't 'get' to negotiate with this guy for the release of your NPCs, and he doesn't get to RP with you e.g.), but there's no 'forcing' going on. You made a choice, and have created this thread to whine that your choice should be validated. Some people validate it, and some of us think you're full of it.


@Jevon: No, English is not Galactic Basic, in SWC or otherwise. English is an OOC language that stands in for whatever language the player wants their characters to speak. I describe Kay's speech in English, but he isn't speaking Basic. I don't speak any other languages, and there's certainly no established Verpine Language for me to write in. OP is making an illogical leap that English = Galactic Basic (upon which he bases the conlusion: therefore German is not, which leads to his 'damage' at German breaking his immersion). I've already gone over why it makes no sense to designate (arbitrarily) an OOC language as equivalent to an IC one. SWC designates English as its official language so there is a clear expectation of what language the game world will use to describe itself, and what language will be used publicly by the player base. It doesn't mean English is Galactic Basic.


Venari Haliat

I believe Mandarin or Cantonese is the most common language in the world but I get your point Jevon.


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There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
- Hamlet
A quick search seems to back ya upp there :) I have serious doubts on the numbers tho. With just the US (319mil) and the UK (64 mil) populations we already pass the number used. So it's seems to not include the people worldwide that speak english as a second language.

1. Chinese 1,197,000,000
2. Spanish 414,000,000
3. English 335,000,000
4. Hindi 260,000,000
5. Arabic 237,000,000
6. Portuguese 203,000,000
7. Bengali 193,000,000
8. Russian 167,000,000
9. Japanese 122,000,000
10. Javanese 84,300,000




Edited By: Jay Ceveri on Year 16 Day 291 20:46
As nice as that is (problems pointed out by Jay aside), those reports are about General Population language speakers. It's not like SWC caters to all 6 billion people on the planet. You want stats on Internet users.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Languages_used_on_the_Internet

Internet Users by Language:
English 28.6%
Chinese 23.2%
Spanish 7.9%
Arabic 4.8%
...

Internet content by language:
English 55.5%
Russian 5.9%
German 5.8%
Japanese 5.0%



Jerrik Tamerin

I still think he has the right to choose to speak German 


Whether he has the right to speak German or not is irrelevant. I have the right to play this game pantless, it doesn't mean I have to exercise that right every time I log in. We play a game that is predominantly English speaking, if a faction wants to speak only one language within their community, I can see that and that is up to them, if they want to interact and get anywhere in the game though, they have to speak the dominant language spoken which I hate to break it to you is................ English.

To accuse the OP of being arrogant is a bit of a stretch. The OP has the right to not interact with that player, that player may be demanding that to be awkward or deliberately difficult and well there ain't much you can do about that.


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Yeah OP does have the option* to choose whether to interact with the player or not. That player has the option* to impose whatever conditions on reciprocation of that interaction he wishes.

OP chose to try to induce the other player to interact with OP on OP's own terms alone, said terms being "in English, because German isn't an IC language and my immersion is ruined by not using an IC language". OP then created this thread to try to get the community to back him, and tried to use this thread to convince the German guy that OP was correct in his demand. OP then got "appalled" that DDTM executed his NPCs, and went in search of forum posts to 'prove' DDTM could speak English. Then he started to suggest the reason for not wanting to speak in German was because he wasn't able to use nuance to negotiate properly. Totally willing to sacrifice the DDTM's ability to communicate, but unwilling to compromise on his own.

While "arrogant" isn't the word I'd use for OP, he's certainly self-entitled.

* seriously, we all need to stop misusing the term "Right(s)". Bloody charters.


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