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Year 8 Day 74 16:10
Wilhuff Calixtie
Wilhuff Calixtie
I've noticed as I looked through lists of ships, vehicals, and spacestations that several are inaccurate in their information. It wasn't surprising that the Empire had an advantage in ships and vehicals (despite being unfair to RA and there being well known ships used by them like the AAC Tank, T2 B Tank, T4 B Tank, MK I and II Frigates, ect...) but also some Imperial Warships have advantages that for some are not completely true. For instance, the Mon Cal cruisers, it is canon for them to be longer then Star Destroyers and better shielded. Also, with Home One, it was not just the name of a ship but just one of the same class of ships. I know that the site is a 'work in progress' but maybe I could help. My email is lisacromer@bellsouth.net .


Year 8 Day 74 16:20
Phryss
Phryss
Chances are, the inconsistencies you mention, and others you might find, are deliberate moves by the rules team to increase game balance and other factors. If you would like to help in such decisions, mail an application to rules@swc and explain why you would be a good addition to the team.


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Year 8 Day 74 16:29
"Home One, also known as Headquarters Frigate, was a MC80 Star Cruiser "


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Year 8 Day 76 3:27
Jareel Skaj
Jareel Skaj
you forgot moust important part:
"Home One, also known as Headquarters Frigate, was a MC80 Star Cruiser of the Home One type"
there were at least 3 ships of this type.

Question: Why rebells can't build Home One type ships when Empire can build SSD ?
And don't talk me about "to increase game balance" cause it makes game completly unbalanced. There have to be at least 10 players active all the time in MC80b to destroy single, unescorted SSD (it's just a guess, but I think that it would be rather more players then less), and chanse for such meeting is like... 1/10000


Year 8 Day 76 5:48
Ralgarrch
Ralgarrch
Wilhuff: "It is canon for them to be longer then Star Destroyers"

CUSWE:
"The wedge-shaped Imperial-I class Star Destroyer measured 1,600 meters in length"
"The MC80a measured 1200 meters in length"
"The MC80b measured 1,200 meters in length"
"The Victory-class measured 900 meters in length"

SWC: Correct. Wilhuff: Wrong.

Wilhuff: "and better shielded"

Provide references. Mon Cal shields had a triple redundency that made them tougher then most ships in the galaxy or anything else the rebels had. I have never heard of them having tougher shielding then a 400m bigger ISD however. The shielding is good enough to make their shield strength comparitively closer then would be expected for the difference in size, not to outclass it entirely.

Edit: In fact according to Wookieepedia the shields themselves were weaker then Imperial units they just recharged faster because of the triple redundency method. Allowing weaker shields to be used for greater effect. End Edit

CUSWE, Starwars.com and even wookieepedia state that the Home One is a normal MC80 modified specifically for it's role as a command ship. MC80's differed vastly in size and stats, they were also just passanger liners. Originally the Rebels just modified the MC80's available to fight with untill they started producing the a and b models.

The RA cannot produce more Home One's because it was never produced, an MC80 was produced and you can't define the stats of an MC80 for SWC anyway. They then modified that specific, unusually large, MC80 and gave it that name. There is no MC80 datacard in SWC, just like theres no Venator or Acclamator datacard. The Mon Cal designs are seen as RA designs for the purposes of SWC, the RA at this point in the timeline did not produce outdated passenger liners. Just like the Empire did not produce outdated republic ships.

There is no "Home One" type of ship, it's type of ship is MC80. I have never heard of more than one ship being referred to as a "Home One" either, so provide sources if your going to dispute things as I don't think you know what your talking about.

Provide sources.


Edited By: Ralgarrch on Year 8 Day 76 6:54
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Year 8 Day 76 6:13
Jareel Skaj
Jareel Skaj
sure, no problem with that:

You can see MC80 Home one type first time(?) in Star Wars Episode VI: Return of the Jedi, where it was hit by Death Star turbolaser.
180px-HO_toast.jpg
Some fans belive that it was ship called Defiance, one of THREE MC80 Home Ont type cruisers existed at this time.
First one was ofq. Home One itself, from which name line of cruisers was made, second one was Defiance and last one was Independence
Independence.jpg
which was showned first time in Star Wars: X-wing game. Also you could see it in # Star Wars: X-wing Alliance, X-wing Rogue Squadron comics and book from "Limited Edition" of X-wing game. Thanks to this ship Tantive IV survived attack of ISD Invincible.

And for the end some cute image if Home One Type:
Homeoneprofiles.JPG


Also:
If we need to be cannonical then
MC80a ship should look like that:
MC80aCRS.JPG
1200-1500m, 48 turbolasers, 20 ion cannons, 6 Tractor beams
source: X-wing Alliance

MC80b ship should look like that:
250px-MonRemonda2-FF.jpg
~1200m, 48 turbolasers, 20 ion cannons
source: The Official Star Wars Fact File.

And version with "wings":
225px-WCRS_X_All.JPG
is often mistaken (ALSO in Combine!) with MB80b, when in fact it's a variant (subclass) on MC80a known as Winged Calamari Cruiser.


Edited By: Jareel Skaj on Year 8 Day 76 6:28
Year 8 Day 76 6:27
Ralgarrch
Ralgarrch
CUSWE:

Defiance- "an MC80a star cruiser"


Home One was a modified MC80, Defiance was a standard MC80a.

CUSWE:

Independence- "The MC80a cruiser used as the Alliance's flagship early in the Galactic Civil War."

Home One was a modified MC80. Independence was as standard MC80a.

Please stop talking now, your talking about two different types of ship all being the same type of ship. I was right, you don't know what your talking about.




Edited By: Ralgarrch on Year 8 Day 76 6:33
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Year 8 Day 76 6:30
Jareel Skaj
Jareel Skaj
You've forgot one important thing: THERE WERE 2 SHIPS CALLED Defiance
And it is right that second one was called Defiance and it was first MC90, completed shortly before the First Battle of Mon Calamari.
Independence was Home One type ship. CUSWE isn't all-knowing source

We have such split:
# MC30c frigate
# MC40a light cruiser
# MC80 Star Cruiser: (it's variants:)
* MC80 evacuation cruiser
* MC80 Star Cruiser (Liberty type)
* MC80 Star Cruiser (Home One type)
* MC80a Star Cruiser
-Winged Calamari Cruiser
* MC80B Star Cruiser
# MC90 Star Cruiser


Edited By: Jareel Skaj on Year 8 Day 76 6:35
Year 8 Day 76 6:33
Ralgarrch
Ralgarrch
Response to: "You've forgot one important thing: THERE WERE 2 SHIPS CALLED Defiance"

Yes, which is why as you were typing that I was editing it as I'd copied and pasted the wrong one. I then had to edit it again as you were only describing 2 different types of ship as one type instead of three.

There is no Home One class of MC80. The two ships your using as examples of others of that type aren't even MC80's there MC80a's.


Edited By: Ralgarrch on Year 8 Day 76 6:39
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Year 8 Day 76 6:38
Jareel Skaj
Jareel Skaj
I still thing that drawing informations only from CUSWE isn't the smartest thing.
As for that we have moust cannonical source about which all fans should agree (shame to those who don't!): Wookieepedia:

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Mon_Calamari_Star_Cruiser

Anyway: I think that even if George Lucas would say you that there is a type of ships called Home One you wouldn't belive it, so I think that this talk would not lead to anything smart.


Edited By: Jareel Skaj on Year 8 Day 76 6:41
Year 8 Day 76 6:48
Ralgarrch
Ralgarrch
If wookieepeeida conflicts with CUSWE it's very rare, if ever, that CUSWE is the one which is wrong. CUSWE is created only from canon sources by the people involved. Wookieepedia can be edited by anyone however little they know. CUSWE is an accepted source on which to base things, Wookieepedia requires a canon source that agrees with it to be provided in order to be accepted as a source.


Edited By: Ralgarrch on Year 8 Day 76 6:52
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Year 8 Day 76 10:29
Wookieepedia is only as good as the dumbest person who decides to edit it. CUSWE, on the other hand, is maintained by a few knowledgeable individuals who know how to actually check sources, and only use reputable references in order to draw their information from.
As Ralgarrch pointed out, wookieepedia is not a reputable reference.


Now, if the CUSWE isn't good enough for you, let me quote the OFFICIAL Star Wars Encyclopedia:
"Home One - A Mon Calamari-designed starship, it was Admiral Ackbar's personal flagship during the battle of Endor. The vessel, also referred to as the Headquarters Frigate, was cylindrical and organically artistic, with a fluid stance. (... various technical specifications...) Home One was also the Alliance command center during the reconquest of Coruscant."
And then from the entry for Mon Calamari star cruiser:
"Each Mon Cal cruiser has a unique design, because the ships are considered almost as much works of art as weapons of war. While this makes them difficult to repair, their armour and redundant systems ensure they are rarely damaged in combat. Some notable Mon Cal ships include the round, blimp-shaped Headquarters Frigate, known as Home One and winged, elongated Medical Frigate."

So Home One was indeed a unique design.


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Only fools and children dream of heroes.
Year 8 Day 76 13:28
Phryss
Phryss
This is the wrong place for this discussion. General Talk is that-a-way, and applications to join the rules team still go to rules@swc.


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