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Year 8 Day 352 12:50
Xavze Zavan
Xavze Zavan
hmmm...no rebel D/Cs or have them all in Flynn`s hands.

Ya..those are bad options.Lesser of the 2 evils is fold it though O_O


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Year 8 Day 352 14:36
David Kellar
David Kellar
except that we will not work with Flynn, we can't and be the good guys, nor can we dissolve the NR and defend against the GE. hence the difficulty.

EDIT: I'm assuming that you mean fold into Flynn, I may be misunderstanding you here.


Edited By: David Kellar on Year 8 Day 352 14:37
Year 8 Day 354 7:43
"Fold" in relation to a company (or in this case a faction) usually means to go out of business (i.e. he's saying the best option may be to just disband the NR. It'll be a huge pain in the ass to rebuild, but if you can get the support (i.e. money/resources)of some of Adam's enemies (I assume he must have some?), you'll get there eventually. At this point, that really may be your best option; if I read the rules correctly, Adam may well have re-assigned some, many, or even all of your facilities to his own company. If that's so, the DCs are the only remaining resource of value, and at least by disbanding the NR you'd be denying them to him.

I still think the idea of uber-factions -- i.e. an alliance of smaller factions -- is very workable, would model the SW uni RA/NR more closely, and would help avoid this sort of situation in the future. Having faction leaders as "gods" over supposedly democratic societies/groupings doesn't sit well. Might have to wander over to the "suggestions" forum; many ideas brewing...

Out of curiosity, does anyone know where Adam *is* just now? Is he in fact keeping himself ship-bound (and thus more or less untouchable)? Is he ground-based? What are the odds of anyone (bounty hunter, whoever) getting to him? Might be worth at least a try before hitting the "kill" switch on the NR. Again, if you lack the resources to pay a large bounty, try Adam's enemies; they may be willing to foot the bill in return for future considerations (possibly being allowed to copy some or all of your DCs in the event they're able to catch him?).

I have to say, my original assessment wasn't far off: unless Adam gets careless and exposes himself to capture, your only real alternative is to disband the NR, so for people to say that you "have options" is like saying someone who has been ejected from an airlock without a spacesuit has options (hey, they could, you know, hold their breath and pray for a miracle, or, like, shoot themselves to end it quickly, or just do some flips so he can show The Man he can't be kept down, even in death! That's *loads* of options!).

Just my 0.02 credits.


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Year 8 Day 354 9:06
Isn't this a moot point, since Adam has left NR for Black Sun, and put Phymp back in charge of NR?

They have control of the faction. They have the datacards. They may not have everything they had before, but I'm sure they remain in a position to rebuild.

As for uber-faction, you already can assign ships, etc, over to the management of a faction. So if Alissma chose to align with the NR, I could give them management of all our ships, and they could assign them for NR tasks as they saw fit.

It's true that the territory I control would still remain under Alissma's control, not being considered NR territory for Galactic Government purposes, or for AE rights, but then, territory is a much more involved thing than ship assignments.


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"May the Grace of Ara go with you, and His Vengeance be wrought upon your enemies."

Only fools and children dream of heroes.
Year 8 Day 354 11:41
Jeb`el Ras
Jeb`el Ras
your only real alternative is to disband the NR, so for people to say that you "have options" is like saying someone who has been ejected from an airlock without a spacesuit has options 


That analogy isn't even remotely accurate. Even if Flynn had kept the NR in perpetuity, it wouldn't be an inevitable death blow, which is what your analogy implies. More like a choice between foreclosure and bankruptcy. Do the choices suck? Sure, but that's life.

With proper planning they could have recouped a significant portion or perhaps even the bulk of the assets. The key issue however was the datacards - since the admins refuse to institute a policy on how dissolved datacards will be handled, the NR was operating blindfolded. It's like saying you can file bankruptcy, but whether you get to keep your house depends entirely on the whim of whoever happens to be the judge that day.


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Year 8 Day 355 2:45
Isn't this a moot point, since Adam has left NR for Black Sun, and put Phymp back in charge of NR? 


Ha! Missed that bit of news. In that case, yes, it is. :)

As for uber-faction, you already can assign ships, etc, over to the management of a faction. So if Alissma chose to align with the NR, I could give them management of all our ships, and they could assign them for NR tasks as they saw fit. 


It's not just about the ships (or the territory). That's grand if you don't mind cedeing (sp?) control of your ships/resources to another faction in which, ultimately, you have no say. I will (one of these... months...) post it to the ideas forum where it belongs; it's a bit long to be going into here. And maybe it'll be decided that it *is* covered well enough by the existing rules (or too much of a pain to bother coding, or just generally not worth the trouble), and that's fine. But at least wait until it's all written down somewhere before judging it.

That analogy isn't even remotely accurate. Even if Flynn had kept the NR in perpetuity, it wouldn't be an inevitable death blow, which is what your analogy implies. 


Hmm, sorry, I see the confusion; that was simply meant to be a "rock and a hard place" analogy, I wasn't trying to imply their only recourse was method of death. In a literal sense, yes, your analogy does fit better. And I realise the DCs were the main sticking point. I see how expensive they are, not to mention the unique ships (and whatever else) that could've been lost. My point was just that if Adam was bound and determined to cling to faction leader status and, by extension, the datacards (which, ipso facto, he wasn't), the lesser of two evils might've been to disband the NR and at least deny him use of the DCs. Might.

Though in review, they could also have waited (and waited) until combat comes in and tried re-taking them by force. :) I'm sure they would've had plenty of help from the various Empire factions. ;)

Ok, signing off on this thread. I can't even remember, did the whole spying thing ever get resolved...? We seem to have drifted a bit with the current.

And apologies if I've offended anyone (or anyone's sensibilities) here. "Sometimes the only way to get pertinent information is to ask impertinent questions." -JMS


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Year 8 Day 355 10:49
That's grand if you don't mind cedeing (sp?) control of your ships/resources to another faction in which, ultimately, you have no say. 


Not so, since those ships can be unassigned by the owning faction at any time. Even potentially trapping NR members aboard them, awaiting... whatever fate. I'd call that leverage. Making them over to the NR would be ceding control of your resources, which is very different, and requires you to have absolute trust not only in the current NR leadership, but all future NR leadership.

I will (one of these... months...) post it to the ideas forum where it belongs; it's a bit long to be going into here. And maybe it'll be decided that it *is* covered well enough by the existing rules (or too much of a pain to bother coding, or just generally not worth the trouble), and that's fine. But at least wait until it's all written down somewhere before judging it. 


I can tell you that it has previously been considered and declined. The Admin is not interested in altering the way factions currently operate (the dictatorship model). Should you post it, there's a very high probability I'll be closing it within 24 hours of posting.


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"May the Grace of Ara go with you, and His Vengeance be wrought upon your enemies."

Only fools and children dream of heroes.
Year 8 Day 355 16:12
And here I thought I was done... (and you all *hoped* I was)

Not so, since those ships can be unassigned by the owning faction at any time. 


Aha! As I said! Pertinent information! Thanks for that. I see the distinction there now, and I thank you. I concede the point. Now, does that also apply to credits and RM? Hmm. Yes, you could cut off the flow at any point (or return the ships to your own control); still, it's not the same as having a real, weighted voice in the running of the other faction.

I can tell you that it has previously been considered and declined. The Admin is not interested in altering the way factions currently operate (the dictatorship model). Should you post it, there's a very high probability I'll be closing it within 24 hours of posting. 


Does anyone else see the irony inherent in that statement?


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Year 8 Day 361 22:26
I just wondered in on this thread. Quite interesting....
Please don't consider anything I write as really criticism more opinion or observations of the SWC on the strengths and weaknesses,

I am only a few weeks in the game but I find it funny at a pretty high level that according to the admins,,,
"Theft is part of the game."
Spying by definition should be legal it is theft of information.
Nearly every conflict in world history was resolved by spys but here we ban their existence... Interesting paradox....

The game is not a democracy, much like faction leaders admins are dictators. (This is normal in administering computers live with it...)

IMHO the issue IC and OOC is that when decisions are made based on arbitrary and inconsistent reasoning, eventually it leads to stagnation and kills the mechanism. (Mechanism being factions or the game itself.)

Currently SWC has enough challenges to keep certain game types interested, the downside is there are folks who drift away because of the insufficient hope that the active parts of the game will happen very soon. (IE "patience my A** I wanta kill something") Of course thats the result of what amounts to a open source style development process without a project manager with authority to keep things moving like in a for profit venture. Its natural but even for the open source community SWC has moved somewhat slow. But I don't know what programming strategy your using so thats totally a long distance guess.

It would be interesting to talk to the guy who owns pokemoncrater.com, he has combat dialed.... My 10 year old likes it and when I helped her set up
the account I thought its quite clever. 30K + players with hundereds of entities in their control moving around in a multi layer grid and they may either cross paths or fight at any time its the players choice....

Anyway I commend the ingenuity thats gone into this so far, the players, admins, developers etc that have done this work. Its quite impressive and I look forward to hanging around to watch it happen.


Cheers.
Tarc









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