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Zorva Sobek
Zorva Sobek
If we're meant to play by the "Intended Rules", and not those posted in the Rules section of this site, I'd like to know where I can find those so as to avoid any misunderstandings in the future.

Seriously, how can anyone expect the game to be fair if the actual rules are not made available?

Edited By: Zorva Sobek on Year 10 Day 77 19:05

Screwed by Administrators who run the game with secret rules.
Calm down and stop spamming the forum. Generally the intended rules are posted on the rules page. Sometimes mistakes happen. Mistakes are usually noticeable because something doesn't mesh up--for example, the sudden mention of a scenario type that hasn't existed in over half a decade, or the strange existence of "close comments" tags. We do our best to keep everything up to date, and to correct errors when we discover them, and in the meantime you can always ask about rules that you are uncertain about, especially when such factors as the aforementioned are present.

Year 10 Day 77 20:03
Deleted Post
Deleted by Syn. Reason: Be helpful or be gone.
Zorva Sobek
Zorva Sobek
Its not my intention to spam, merely to try to understand exactly how the administration of this game is justifying their decision.

Again, I'm not here to ask an apparently unintended rule be used to ban anyone that would have been guilty of breaking it. I am personally not claiming any decision has been based on bias by any party. I'm asking that the administrators take responsibility for their mistake, and not punish players for it.

Fairness in any game is based on providing a level playing field to all players. No one enjoys playing any game that is unbalanced against them, doubly so when the unbalance is not made apparent until after the fact. When admins unbalance the playing field by giving different players different rules, or by making unposted and unannounced rules overriding, even by mistake, it destroys the integrity of the game.

What I find baffling in this is the complete lack of regard SWC's admins are showing to CSA's members for the loss that came not from CSA's actions, but because of admitted administrative errors. If assets had been accidentally deleted by a coder or someone flown into a sun because of a bug, there would be no question by anyone that it should be undone. Here, simply because the admins don't want to penalize another player for playing by the rules given him, they're apparently willing to give the shaft to dozens of others rather than find an equitable solution. Its a slap in the face of everyone who ever worked on or played this game expecting fair administration, and shows to me a complete disinterest in running a fair game.


Screwed by Administrators who run the game with secret rules.
I'm asking that the administrators take responsibility for their mistake, and not punish players for it. 

So then we should allow the ab/use of bugs, and not reverse things that happen when features do not react the way that they are intended to?

The rule appeared because of a bug. Nothing more, nothing less.

because of a bug, there would be no question by anyone that it should be undone 

So why, then, are you asking for actions to be undone because of a bug?

Your reasoning is backwards.


"May the Grace of Ara go with you, and His Vengeance be wrought upon your enemies."

Only fools and children dream of heroes.
The players who undertook the actions in question did nothing wrong; that's the important issue here. It would not be fair to them to undo what they did just to appease you. I'm sorry that you feel victimized, and I know a lot of players put time and effort into the factions in question, but in the interest of fairness, it would not be right to undo what was done because no one did anything wrong.

It's not a matter of disregard or bias or hostility or any other label you want to slap onto this, Sobek. You simply disagree with the decision, and you're entitled to. Generally the people who get the short end of the stick do, and in a situation like this, one side or the other will. I'm telling you right now that the motive behind the decision is fairness, even if you don't want to believe that. I have no reason to lie to you. Unfortunately there isn't anything I can say to convince you that this is the truth, so I'll leave it at that.

Zorva Sobek
Zorva Sobek
Yours is the faulty logic. The stated rules of the game ARE, to any reasonable person, meant to be the official statement of the creator's intention of the rules, and has always been assumed to be so in this game.

The fairness of a game is based upon everyone playing by the same rules. As players, we have absolutely no way of knowing what the creator's intention is beyond what is listed as the official rules. The only fair way for players to play is to take all rules stated officially at face value, otherwise its impossible for all players to play under the same rules. Therefore, in any reasonable and fair game, the rules posted must be the rules followed by all in all cases, even if those rules were only posted by mistake.

In any game, the rules are the foundation. The are the beginning from which everything about the game is made. In a computer game such as this, the rules are the basis for everything in the game, particularly code. First the rules are made, then the code is made to act upon those rules. If the code doesn't agree with rules, then its called a bug. In any fair game, the preference is always given to the rules under which the players are told to play by.

Would anyone play chess if the moves the pieces could make weren't known, or were changed without warning at tournaments? Lets say you were playing soccer and a member of the other team tackles and kicks you in the head repeatedly, then easily scores because your team is down a man. When you go over to the ref, he says "Oh, we changed the rules so it allows for that, but accidentally forgot to tell you." Would any player, any team, any coach, any fan simply accept that? Would anyone keep playing or watching soccer if the rules were changed in such a way?

With the decisions the admins are making here, they are declaring that the rules as posted and implied to be the intended rules are no longer the actual rules of the game. The real rules of the game are what is in Veynom's mind, unknowable to the players. When the rules are unknowable, the game is not a fair one, and is therefore a sham.

Syn: is that the official decision? One side has to get the short end, so it might as well be CSA? Are the administrators so completely unable and unwilling to find any sort of equitable compromise? How can they possibly justify that and call this a fair game?

Edited By: Zorva Sobek on Year 10 Day 77 22:26

Screwed by Administrators who run the game with secret rules.
That's a creative interpretation of what I said and you're clearly determined to refuse to accept that objectively this is the only fair solution. You're now trying to be insulting and pick a fight so I'm locking this thread as well.