I am curious to learn more about the etiquette for using middles in a trade:

1. Presumably either the buyer or seller needs to approach an agreed middle beforehand, to ask if they are willing to be involved...but is their a certain way to go about this?

2. Do middles charge for the service and if so, is there a usual rate?

3. Will reputable middles only bother with a trade if it is worth more than a certain value?

Many thanks!

1) Yes - Buyers and Sellers typically have a list of middles they've used before and/or are comfortable using. One or the other of them would approach the middle as you say, and work out terms.

2) Depends, but in my experience the trustworthy middles have so much wealth already they're happy to just give back to the Trading community. Tips are welcome. I know I definitely tip when the number of assets or the complexity of the transaction is significant.

3) Never hurts to ask. Many traders set a clear Minimum below which they will not accept using a middle anyway. I commonly see 25million as that floor, but it varies. Middles vary, but I think most of them recognize they're just doing a favour to a fellow player and don't balk at the size of the favour they're doing.

Thanks Kay...that helps a lot.

“Many traders set a clear Minimum below which they will not accept using a middle anyway. I commonly see 25million as that floor, but it varies. ”

I ask because my first few trades are inevitably going to be quite a way below that threshold and while a couple of million may be loose change to most here, it's a lot when that's basically all you have! I also notice that if you list an item on CPM, you are obliged to sell it to whoever accepts the price/wins the auction...so I'm curious how you can avoid being trapped in a deal with someone shifty.

Hi Risha,

On the listing information, just include the terms of sale, including mandatory use of reputable middleman (Syn, Togan Jano and Dac Kain are the most well known) and if you don't wish to deal with anyone listed as a scammer, then state that. If anybody has a problem with that, then they shouldn't purchase and if they do and don't go through with the deal, thats on them, not you.

I hope that helps.

Rennek

Sadly, according to CPM rules, you can't dictate who you sell too. If you do not follow through with said deal because someone you have black listed bought it, you can be listed as a scanner yourself. CPM is an open market, so to speak. Anyone can buy anything that is posted, and you have to honor it.

" so I'm curious how you can avoid being trapped in a deal with someone shifty."

Yes, while Kathlen is absolutely correct that CPM rules prohibit enforcing blacklists (or otherwise just refusing to complete a trade as a seller), Rennek's advice is on-point. In your terms of Sale (if you're selling) insist on a middle or the other party sending first.

If you're the buyer, make contact with the seller prior to buying/bidding on the listing and discuss terms. If you're not happy with the sales terms they require (e.g. you send first and no middle) then you do not have to buy/bid, and you're fine. If you just Buy/Bid and then contact to discuss terms, you're basically stuck with the terms of sale as written and implied if you and the seller cannot come to an agreement.

A Bid/Offer are full Offers capable of acceptance. I'm unsure from Traders' Lounge history of Scammer-threads whether you can rely on DMing your own set of terms to attach to said Offer. I would think not. A BuyNow is an acceptance of the sellers' Offer - including all terms express or implied in their listing.

Which is precisely why I would want the option of a middle on any trade!

Say I wanted to sell a ship costing 2-3 million; that might well be too small-time to interest a major career criminal, but that doesn't mean it won't still be an attractive target for a newbie chancer...or the scam artist who deliberately preys on low-level marks without dangerous friends.

I'd be really interested to hear how others approached the problem when they were just starting out.

Edit: Replied before receiving the last post. Will certainly follow that advice!

No one's going to scam you for a 2 mil ship unless they're already a scammer. If I'm going on the scammers list, it's gonna be for something a lot bigger than that.

But you can put 'buyer sends first' on the listing, which is usually the protocol anyway.

Ordinarily, you're safe if it's a sale below 10M - or anywhere up to 50M-ish for the average trader. Nobody with half a braincell is going to wreck their trade career for such a relatively tiny little scam. You'll be looking at hundreds upon hundreds of millions of credits entering the billions.

If you're at all uncertain, use a middle. If you're selling, then the usual practice as Esmerelde mentioned is to have the buyer send first. If you're suspicious for any reason, then make sure you gather proof of the purchase. Screenshots of DMs, trade screens, chat logs, et cetera. It never hurts to insure yourself.

And I could use more stuff to laugh at in Trader's Lounge.

If you're for some reason scammed for 2 mil, you'll most likely just be reimbursed for it by someone in the trading community. But for trades of that size, people don't commonly refuse to send first anyway so you shouldn't have much trouble. Good luck!

Risha,
Put that Cloak/H on CPM. (assuming that's what you are going to be selling).
I'll buy it and pass it on to Jax to give to another new Corellian :)
I'll click buy on CPM then send the creds. within 30 seconds in darkness.
That's the way all trades should be made IMO.

Thanks for all the advice, everyone!

Jenson: That's much appreciated; I just need to save/scrounge a few more credits first as even with the proceeds of selling the Cloak/H, I'm still short of the price of my next ship. Maybe after one more job... ;)

You can always participate in the WTF New Player Raffle! =P

I personally consider middles overrated for most small traders. If someone has a large trade reputation I will happily send first for deals worth most of my wealth. Even if they don't have a trade rep I'll send first for deals up to around the 30 mil mark. Admittedly I'll likely regret some day but I find trusting people by sending first helps build good trade relationships.

Zrosh: I've already won once...I was planning to give someone else a shot ;)

Fritjof: That's a good point. I'm just keenly aware that one wrong step could clean me out!

I have the policy on CPM that if I sell the asset im alwsys willing to use a known middle but i get to choose the known middle. I always ask the buyer to list the middles they are willing to use and then I pick one based in whos online at the time avoid a potential argument or the trade from falling though.